Which Laws Should be Abolished?

[quote]willymammoth wrote:
3FL wrote:

If there’s no guns there’s no need for a gun to protect yourself.

In my opinion.

Great, it works in Denmark, where there aren’t many guns. Too bad there ARE guns here in America. Banning them won’t make them disappear.
[/quote]

You ban them, except for legitimate hunting purposes etc., and then the police go aggresively after the gangs etc that still have them. You stiffen the penalties for those caught with them. If you are dedicated to the process, you will get most of the guns.

if all the Hebrews in pre-Nazi Germany owned, knew how to operate, and weren’t reluctant to use firearms to protect their unalienable human rights the Holocaust would have been avoided.

of course, if this were the case, the Nazis would’ve created laws to prohibit firearms, confiscated them all, then proceeded with their anti-semitic plans.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
3. Those who stated that there should be no profanity laws are of course wrong. However, I forgive them as I know that they do not have children yet (most of them at least). Taking your child to school stopping at a traffic light and being treated to someone urinating, or just walking around nude is not something we need. It’s a huge step in the wrong direction.
[/quote]

zeb, could you expound pleez?

[quote]deanosumo wrote:
It would not be simple or short process by any means, but this is no reason not to start it. I have no doubt that in the long run it would lead to a safer America.

[/quote]
Maybe you need a history lesson on what happens when the government starts taking all the guns away from the people. Does the name Hitler ring any bells? Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Our right to bear arms is there just in case we the people have to defend ourselves against government.
Confiscating legally owned and paid for guns from law abiding citzens is called stealing, no matter what politically correct name you would like to give it. Don’t take this the wrong way ,if you like Japan and their laws so much stay there.

What a fun subject.

Get rid of most gun laws. All citizens should be able to own the same weapons issued as personal firearms to the armed forces, and laws keeping them from doing so should be abolished.

I wouldn’t be at all suprised if the violent crime rate for ethnic Japanese or Danes living in the United States were at least as low as in their repective native countries.

You kids remember all of that agiprop about jolly old England and how nice and polite everybody was? Thanks to very potent doses of leftist social engineering, except for murder, they have easily surpassed us in violent crime. Apparently the usual learned idiots have decided that defending one’s life or property a bit too vigorously isn’t cricket, and they will throw the book at you. And yes, confiscating weapons was part of the deal.

John Lott is the guy doing all of the research on gun ownership and crime rates. It suffices to say that he is somewhat controversial. Some left wing academic clown wrote a book a few years back claiming that all of the notions about universal gun ownership back in the day were wrong. Turns out he was a big, no make that huge, fraud. Imagine that- I couldn’t.

BTW, for all of you they have no crime and the US does folks, it was the good ole US of A, with all of its hicks and hillbillies and cowboys who knew how to shoot strait, that had to put down the militarist Japanese, who were extremely polite to the Chinese, and the Germans, not too keen on private gun ownership, and for that matter were the original anti-smoking Nazis as well.

Some libertarian once said that the government has a big enough job to do keeping people from harming one another and ought to steer clear of regulating what people do to themselves. I agree, so shitcan the FDA and the DEA and the ATF. The only thing a manufacturer should get in trouble for is not making what the label says it being made. Of course there will be fallout, be let’s not kid ourselves that there isn’t any now. The War on Drugs has succeeded in corrupting law enforcement, eroding our personal liberties, expanding the police state mentality, shipping hundreds of thousands of non-violent black drug ‘offenders’ to the big house, getting people killed, and on and on. The one thing that is hasn’t of course done is make drugs less available. But it is a government run operation, so what could one expect? Oh, and by the way, those in government wouldn’t lie about what drugs actually do to people would they, to accumulate power and grab a steady paycheck? Never.

Eminent domain should be strictly curtailed. The usual goodie-goodie government types will spout there usual bullshit about creating jobs and blah, blah, blah, and as usual, they will be completely full of shit. On balance, there is no way that you can take something from someone, run it through a bureaucracy, and turn it in to something more valuable. You can of course waste a lot of other people’s money trying and lie your ass off about it, but wealth you won’t create. And guess what kids, who gets screwed the most? The least well connected, poor and minorities, that’s who. Don’t tell me that you were suprised. And of course there are no links to who donates and who gets what. Not possible.

I am all for passing a law that makes a park out of the private residence of any developer and government official that made public to private eminent domain takings possible. The park wouldn’t be complete without a big marble or granite slab, dedicating the hallowed ground to so and so’s greed, meglomania and stupidity with other’s property.

And of course some nerdy type economist ran the numbers and found, duh, that people put less investment in their private property where eminent domain taking is more likely. Whoda thunk?

As the dear reader may well surmise I am very, extremely cynical about what governments, basically monopolies on coercion- force, can and should do. Just because a well-connected group can and does come up with some bullshit idea and get it past a largely indifferent public doesn’t make it good, right, or even so, much less legal in many cases.

So I am for shitcanning over 90 percent of the federal government. Take the 9th and 10th amendments to the Constitution seriously. Change the Department of Defense back to the Department of War. If the DoD is on the job and defending the good ole US of A, then what the fuck do we need the Dept of Homeland Security for?

I could go on and on, but you get the picture. I can’t imagine why anyone calling themselves a T-man would go for more officious idiots telling them what they can and can’t do, especially for their own good. The idea of some out of shape dumbshit telling T-Nation that MAG-10 or MD6 or whatever is bad and going to be banned because that sort of thing plays wells with Soccer Moms causes me serious nausea.

[quote]wufwugy wrote:
if all the Hebrews in pre-Nazi Germany owned, knew how to operate, and weren’t reluctant to use firearms to protect their unalienable human rights the Holocaust would have been avoided.

of course, if this were the case, the Nazis would’ve created laws to prohibit firearms, confiscated them all, then proceeded with their anti-semitic plans.[/quote]

What a load of bullshit! How could a small minority of a couple of million have defended itself against the rest of the nation spearheaded by armed and trained stormtroopers?

You’re actually giving the Holocaust as an example why America should keep having guns? That is perhaps the worst supporting argument I have ever heard.

[quote]MR MARINE wrote:
deanosumo wrote:
It would not be simple or short process by any means, but this is no reason not to start it. I have no doubt that in the long run it would lead to a safer America.

Maybe you need a history lesson on what happens when the government starts taking all the guns away from the people. Does the name Hitler ring any bells? Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Our right to bear arms is there just in case we the people have to defend ourselves against government.
Confiscating legally owned and paid for guns from law abiding citzens is called stealing, no matter what politically correct name you would like to give it. Don’t take this the wrong way ,if you like Japan and their laws so much stay there.[/quote]

You take a very condescending tone, which is surprising, given you grotesquely simplify the history, which I do know, better than you it seems. Hitler did not originally enact Germany’s gun control laws. The Weimar Republic passed strict gun control laws after WW1, as part of Germany’s compliance to the Treaty of Versaille.
Hitler altered those laws when he came to power. He actually liberalised gun control compared to the previous laws. I’ll include a link to a simple, short abstract.
It’s not your fault, however. You have fallen victim to the prevalent mythology surrounding Nazi Germany and guns, perpetuated by the pro-gun lobby.

Here’s another
http://www.stormfront.org/revision/nazi-law.html

And another.
http://tafkac.org/politics/hitler_gun_control.html

There’s the real history-not the clear-cut mythology most people erroneously believe.

[quote]deanosumo wrote:

Sorry to make a statement without any supporting facts, BB.
I lack your skills for searching, cutting and pasting, BB, but here’s something I found.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap

It shows the countries with the top 50 murder rates per capita. No Japan to be found and the US comes in at No. 24, which is a poor effort for the world’s most advanced country.

Here are the statistics for assaults:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_ass_cap

The US fares even worse here, coming in 5th. Japan is 42nd.
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I have a few issues with world-wide rankings such as these – the most important is that it assumes other countries report these stats as accurately as we do, which is a very dubious assumption when you get outside the 1st world countries.

That said, the differential between the U.S. and Japan in the assault category would tend to undercut your point, unless all those U.S. assaults were accomplished by someone wielding a gun.

Unless you think gun control actually causes a drop in non-gun-related assaults?

[quote]wufwugy wrote:
zeb, could you expound pleez?[/quote]

Expound? Well, I thought that what I stated was pretty self explanatory. Let me give it another shot.

I don’t like pulling up to a traffic light with my young daughter in the car and watching a naked man masturbating under an over pass. It sort of gets the day off on the wrong foot.

Now if that man were naked and simply walking down the street, I would still not like it under the above conditions.

If that man was fully clothed but was swearing loudly while my daughter and I were within ear shot, that too is offensive.

There are and should be laws against the above.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Expound? Well, I thought that what I stated was pretty self explanatory. Let me give it another shot.

I don’t like pulling up to a traffic light with my young daughter in the car and watching a naked man masturbating under an over pass. It sort of gets the day off on the wrong foot.

Now if that man were naked and simply walking down the street, I would still not like it under the above conditions.

If that man was fully clothed but was swearing loudly while my daughter and I were within ear shot, that too is offensive.

There are and should be laws against the above.

[/quote]

I think you overstepped the bounds of logic with supporting laws that restrict “swearing loudly”. This then brings in questions like, “what is considered a swear word and how loud is loud?”. Should I change my entire pattern of speech upon walking out of my front door just in case you may have sensitive ears? That begins to look very much like public censorship and I don’t agree with that at all.

Nate:

I think there are many that hold your view. I also think you are correct with many (not all) of your assertions. However, I think the biggest difference lies with something that you and I have not yet touched on. That is the United States Constitution which gives us the right to bear arms. Hence, anything that takes away such a right is wrong.

I don’t recall seeing anything in the constitution which states that we all have a right to a prostitute.

zeb what kind of areas are you driving through? Maybe you should avoid those areas if you don’t want your daughter to see that. I can’t imagine guys are just wacking off on any street corner in your city. Not that I’m condonig behaviour like that or suggesting we bury our heads in the sand, but like it or not your daughter and others are going to see and hear things they don’t like, including swearing.

To suggest people not be able to speak their mind in public and exercise one’s right to free speech is a little much. I understand you wanting to protect your daughter and that’s to be expected but in the real world she will be exposed to sights and sounds you might not like.

What I find offense is being approached on the street corner by someone preaching endtime prophecy or trying to convert me to god. Should that be aboilished as well? I have no tolerance for people trying to hand me “Awake” and I tell them where they can shove it, which I’m sure they find offensive.

quote]ZEB wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
zeb, could you expound pleez?

Expound? Well, I thought that what I stated was pretty self explanatory. Let me give it another shot.

I don’t like pulling up to a traffic light with my young daughter in the car and watching a naked man masturbating under an over pass. It sort of gets the day off on the wrong foot.

Now if that man were naked and simply walking down the street, I would still not like it under the above conditions.

If that man was fully clothed but was swearing loudly while my daughter and I were within ear shot, that too is offensive.

There are and should be laws against the above.

[/quote]

[quote]schrauper wrote:
BTW, for all of you they have no crime and the US does folks, it was the good ole US of A, with all of its hicks and hillbillies and cowboys who knew how to shoot strait, that had to put down the militarist Japanese, who were extremely polite to the Chinese, and the Germans, not too keen on private gun ownership, and for that matter were the original anti-smoking Nazis as well.[/quote]

A fair bit of your post was BS, no doubt, but it was discussing issues I am not to familiar with. This one paragraph, however, shows your knowledge of world history clearly enough. The brave americans stopped the evil nazis?

No question, the americans had a hell of a fight in the pacific. Note, however, that until pearl harbour, the US remained neutral. The US only got involved because it was attacked.

As for stopping the nazis, yeah it was totally the americans… I don’t know what holywood movie you learned your history from, but just look nazi up troop deployment. You’ll notice that WWII was fought, form the german stand point, on the eatern front. And who was it that was marching into berlin when hitler commited suicide? Yep, the ruskies. That’s right, “god damned commies” are the ones that stopped hitler, not the brave straight-shooting hillbillies you seem to fantasize about.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I merely called you on that statement! I see you have backed away from it now. I’m glad that you see you are wrong.

Get your head out of your ass. I stand by that statement and have not backed away from anything. Why would you take one statement out of context? You knew I was responded to the described incident yet you are now trying to act as if you made some point? You didn’t. Don’t fool yourself.[/quote]

Who is fooling themselves? I think that person is you oh blustery one!

You made a blanket statement: “That still doesn’t justify killing someone unless he was armed.”

That was the entirety of your statement, hence nothing was “taken out of context” as you wrongly stated.

My original question: “If someone has his hands around your loved ones throat and you can’t get to him in time, you wouldn’t shoot him?”

Would you like to answer the question now, or would you rather continue name calling?

I think you should take the high road…for a change.

That fat redneck asshole in Louisiana that shot the Japanese exchange student was wrong.

If he didn’t have a gun he would have hit him with a baseball bat or an axe.

Don’t use an isolated incident to make a case. It is poor logic.

When the antigun crowd starts to cite statistics, take them with a grain of salt. When they tell you how many “children” are shot what they don’t tell you is many of them are drug dealers shot by other drug dealers.

If these drug dealers did not have guns they would use other weapons.

The way to eliminate that violence is to look at the cause. The drug laws are the cause.

If we eliminated the drug laws we would have a whole new set of problems but we would also likely be a much less violent society.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think you overstepped the bounds of logic with supporting laws that restrict “swearing loudly”. This then brings in questions like, “what is considered a swear word and how loud is loud?”. Should I change my entire pattern of speech upon walking out of my front door just in case you may have sensitive ears? That begins to look very much like public censorship and I don’t agree with that at all.
[/quote]

Professor:

LOL, you might want to quit while you are way, way behind.

How have I breached the bounds of logic? By claiming that everyone is entitled to move about in a society without having to be treated to someone “swearing loudly?” Would you like to retract that now or later?

This might come as a great shock to you (actually, I hope not) but there are laws currently on the books in virtually every state which cover the very scenario that I painted, and you find illogical.

Usually the laws read something like this:

"A person is guilty of disorderly conduct when, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof:

  1. He makes unreasonable noise; or
  2. In a public place, he uses abusive or obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture."

Now each state may vary somewhat, but the basic crux of the law is that one person should not be allowed to bother another by means stated above (give or take according to the state).

Your argument that it would be public censorship, not unlike your previous argument, is actually laughable :slight_smile:

Obviouosly you didn’t read the last line .I am not a writer and it was not ment to be condescending. This is just my opinion which if offends you ,to bad I have the right to my opinion and beliefs as you do to yours . The link you posted are basicaly another person opinions right or wrong .I like guns I like to go out and shoot stuff up at a friends junk yard. I’m a law abiding citizen who respects other rights .I should be able to own any firearm I desire. What do you think of confiscating a persons gun collection which is usually worth thousands of dollars plus ,with no compensation . I’ll say it again its called stealing. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Get your head out of your ass. I stand by that statement and have not backed away from anything. Why would you take one statement out of context? You knew I was responded to the described incident yet you are now trying to act as if you made some point? You didn’t. Don’t fool yourself.

Who is fooling themselves? I think that person is you oh blustery one!

You made a blanket statement: “That still doesn’t justify killing someone unless he was armed.”

That was the entirety of your statement, hence nothing was “taken out of context” as you wrongly stated.

My original question: “If someone has his hands around your loved ones throat and you can’t get to him in time, you wouldn’t shoot him?”

Would you like to answer the question now, or would you rather continue name calling?

I think you should take the high road…for a change.
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You have lost it. Again, in terms of someone shooting a kid for knocking on the door, THAT STILL DOESN’T JUSTIFY SHOOTING SOMEONE UNLESS THEY ARE ARMED. That is not a blanket statement when I quote the damn passage I am referring to. This kid was not a threat. If someone is getting ready to kill someone I care about, this is different and not the same as the kid knocking on the door. I am not against the use of guns (shit, I am trained to use them). I am against dumbasses like you trying to make a point by excusing a negative act like this kid being shot simply so you can support gun use. You are the clueless one in this. Keep showing it.

[quote]wufwugy wrote:
if all the Hebrews in pre-Nazi Germany owned, knew how to operate, and weren’t reluctant to use firearms to protect their unalienable human rights the Holocaust would have been avoided.

of course, if this were the case, the Nazis would’ve created laws to prohibit firearms, confiscated them all, then proceeded with their anti-semitic plans.[/quote]

Oh, wait…isn’t that what they DID? I’ve seen a ton of bumper stickers with Hitler’s quote of finally achieving a gunless society. That worked out GREAT for the Jews, didn’t it?
I’m no gun toter. In fact, the only guns in my house are a bb gun of my stepson’s and my great-great grandfather’s old shotgun (I wouldn’t dare shoot it). However I am totally AGAINST abolishing gun ownership. Not only is it a DIRECT violation of the Constitution, but as many have stated, it will only stop the law abiders.
Let’s be honest- if you really want it and are willing to break the law, name ONE thing that you can not get your hands on.

phody:

That post, and another prior to it was in response to another posters comment about why public nakedness, shouting etc should in fact be allowed. I was simply speaking out in favor of laws that are already on the books.

Obviously, I wouldn’t drive into any area where such things take place with a 9 year old girl in the car. Who would? I know you would not expose a child of that age to any of the above previously stated comments or actions. She may very well be exposed to such things, hopefully much later on in life.

As to your other comments: I too find it annoying and offensive “to be approached on a street corner by someone preaching endtime prohpecy…” That too is illegal unless of course they have the proper permit to carry on as they do. Then it’s just annoying, but not illegal.

Let me go you one better! How about the fanatics that knock on your door during dinner hour? I find it hard to believe that they have any sort of permit to do that. That is really annoying!

How about the telephone comapanies (or any business) that use dinner hour to make their solicitation calls because they know you are home. Wow …do I hate that!