[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote: Tell me do you think complaining on a message board is going to help you? Other than that what are you doing about it? Not voting? Tell me how does that help elect the best of the two people running?
I think we agree that change is needed in our system. But we do not agree on what to do until that change arrives. I’m guessing that you think ranting and raving and staying home when it’s time to vote will help, or maybe voting for a guy who is going to get less than 1% of the vote. I choose to look to the best of the two parties as I see it.
Now tell me which is the more logical choice?
I’d rather have my political voice count for something.
Should I say it again?
…Simple
[/quote]
Its the inconsistency with you I have a problem with ZEB. It’s why we see eye to eye on so very little. It seems as if almost every post you make is filled with all sorts of hypocrisies and inconsistencies. You HAMMER Obama for the debt, but didn’t say anything about it with Bush. You HAMMER Obama on Benghazi, but defended Iraq to the death. You HAMMER Obama’s decisions as commander in chief, but admonished others for doing the same to Bush as disrespectful and hurting morale. Government is the problem you say, except in all the cases where you think it is the solution. And I can’t help but think that if Obama had an R by his name on the ballot and not a D all the things he continued to do that Geogre W Bush did would be routinely defended instead of attacked.
Complaining on a message board? Isn’t that what we all do? How often have I seen you complain about Obama? Hundreds of times? What are you doing about it? You may call it ranting and raving and that’s fine. That’s exactly what I think when I see yet another post from you talking about LIBERALS, LIBERALS, DEMOCRATS, LEFT, LEFT, LEFT!!! Have you made an anti-left post over a thousand times? I’d say it’s close. What is THIS helping anyways? It’s yet another example of you being inconsistent as hell and it really boggles my mind. My posts aren’t helping anything, but yours are.
Talking to people on message boards is what I do to help the movement. Not wasting a vote on one of the two big party candidates does much more than “having my vote count!” Guess what, you’r guy and my guy have the exact same role now Zeb. Oh, Mitt got to eat lunch with Barack. I guess GJ doesn’t get to to do that. I volunteered for Ron Paul. Change won’t happen overnight and change won’t happen by not attempting to educate people. Isn’t that what you’re trying to do? If not what the fuck are you posting for? Cause you just really like to bitch to other people?
You’re telling me YOU’RE making the logical choice attempting to defend a shit party just because you think they are less shit? Fighting for a big government party because they aren’t as big government as that guy? I don’t think anything about your decision is logical.
I’d say simple, but it clearly isn’t. It’s something you’re struggling with more and more as this conversation goes on. [/quote]
First of all, I’m not “struggling” with anything. I’m perfectly happy to pull the republican lever every single time if there is a democrat that they’re running against. It’s a no brainer.
But you are you are correct I am consistently against left wingers. And why is that? Because they spend more than conservatives…as a rule. Simple. You say they both suck…maybe so, but if one sucks less then that’s the one you vote for. It is after all logical and far better than staying home or voting for someone who is destined to get 1% or less of the vote.
Allow me to use an example. If you were very sick and going to die (may it never happen) and there were only two medications available which would you choose? The first medication would allow you to live another year. The second medication would allow you to live another two years. Neither medication will harm you in any other way they are even in terms of every other aspect.
Would you rant and rave that neither medication is able to save your life? Or, would you take the medication that allowed you to live for the longest period of time and hope that during the two years that the medication gives you that a cure would be found?
Think of politics in that way.
Neither party has the answer I know that but over a given period of time (especially right now) the democrats are absolutely bigger spenders than the republicans.
Sim…never mind.[/quote]
The case which has never been strong has consistently gotten even weaker. So when Republicans are in power and you are defending their big government to the gills it’s merely because you know the other side will be worse? When Democrats do THE EXACT SAME THING as Republicans you attack one side and not the other. Your history of posting shows this. I mean countless examples. This is pretty much an undeniable fact, you can prove it with your own words. In fact, again, if Obama had an R by his name you’d probably defend him. And that’s what’s wrong with the situation. When just one letter makes you change your stance because you like that letter for whatever reason then we have a recipe for disaster.
But maybe we are finally getting somewhere. You’re starting to admit Republicans are bad for the country. That is a step in the right direction. Now if we could just get you to stop supporting a party that you admit is bad we’d really be somewhere.
Your medicine example while cute is not even remotely close to similar. Essentially both medicines are giving you bad pain in the legs when you take them, but only one of those pills is making you mad when you get the pain in the legs. When you’re taking the other pill even if the pain is also really bad you completely ignore it. It makes no bother to you. Because you LIKE one pill more than the other.
I’m glad after lots of posts we can finally agree that the Republican party is no good. Maybe one of these days we can figure out why you’d support a party that is no good merely because you think the other one is no good to a higher extent.
I mean it’d be one thing if you were grudgingly voting for Republicans and lamenting the fact that it really sucks to have to pick them because you think the other side is worse. But you’re HAPPY to defend them. Thrilled to attack the other side. EXCITED to do these things…over a party that you’re actually admitting sucks.
Step one is admitting your party has a problem (or in the GOP case, a ton of them) so we’ve got a start. [/quote]
No, actually that would be called “obvious”. There is no political party, or person either for that matter, who doesn’t have a problem.
And while you rail against the republicans daily they are still the better choice of the two over an extended period of time. Funny as I’ve said before you don’t seem to be quite as upset with the democrats.
As I’ve already said, sitting at home twiddling your thumbs talking about a third party will do nothing to lower the debt. Voting for a third party candidate who will end up with less than 1% of the vote will do nothing to lower the debt. At least I’m voting for a team that is, as we speak trying to hold the line in taxes and reduce spending. What is Gary Johnson doing to help? That’s right nothing! And we all know Obama is on the other side pushing for higher taxes and couldn’t care less about lowering the debt. You might want to point that out in your next post to at least look like you don’t like the democrats either.
So, once again logically speaking if you are going to be in the game you must choose one or the other party.
We are at the point in the debate where we are each repeating what we’ve already said. So I will end with something that I mentioned on a prior occasion. Get the charismatic candidate, the billions to back him or her, the massive organization to make it a serious threat. And a solid debt reduction platform and I bet you would swing millions of votes from both the democratic and republican sides.
Until then if you are actually against both parties you can continue to sit on the sidelines and complain. While part of me understands your how you feel, the logical part of me knows that doing nothing never helps solve the problem.
And that is actually very simple.[/quote]
This is a very right leaning board Zeb. What good does it do to call out Democrats when virtually everyone else on this board does that over and over? If you’d like to see me rail against Democrats on left leaning boards I can show you that. After all they are DEFENDING the exact same things they wanted to impeach Bush for just a few years ago. The big parties are essentially similar is almost always my argument. Sure some of the details are different, but the big stuff is exactly the same. Both want to spend big just on different stuff. Both want to control you but in different ways. Both want the government to have a huge role in your life, just in different ways. If someone wants to argue that they like what the Republicans do with big government that is one thing, but when people act as if they AREN’T big government that’s usually when I start to laugh.
It’s really quite simple.
Again, you act as if I’m doing nothing. I’d love to know exactly what it is you think YOU’RE doing. How are your posts helping in ways that mine aren’t? Heck you’re preaching to the choir here. Most of the people on this board feel exactly as you do or very similar. Look at the election threads. Look at the number of anti-Obama threads posted. You post over and over again about how bad the left is to people who on the whole feel the exact same way you do. I mean a thousand anti-left posts on a board that is very heavily tilted towards the right does what?
Do Republicans really want to hold the line on this stuff? Why would you buy their bullshit this time? Of course they are against what Democrats want to spend on, they don’t like a lot of what Democrats want to spend on. They want to spend on what they like. Romney didn’t even try to hide how much he wanted to spend extra on the military. The left can tow the line on spending as well if it’s spending on stuff they hate. Hell, some of the stuff Obama has done has been stuff the Republicans have argued strongly for in the past. The left is the same way. If it’s OUR idea it’s a great one, but if it’s OUR idea and the other team uses it then we have to hate it.
It’s not complicated Zeb, in fact it’s simple.
You’re right, talking about a third party does nothing to lower the debt. You know what else does nothing to lower the debt? Making sure Republicans win the Presidency. This is a fact Zeb. You absolutely cannot prove otherwise. You can deflect. You can say but Obama. But Carter. But Clinton. But Democrats! It’s also a fact that NOW you’re against spending and against the debt. This is a great position to take. It’s a shame you didn’t take this position the last time your team was in power. You can deflect. You can blame others. But that is another undeniable fact. And it’s not just you, BOTH sides do this all the time. Again, don’t believe me, look at the left apologize for the same stuff they wanted to impeach Bush for.
Again, simple.
You’re right, I’m on the sidelines when it comes to the two major parties and you’re in the game. That’s what the two parties want. Pick a team, any team. The difference is I think it’s awful to be in the game and you think you’re making fun of me by saying “haha, you don’t have a team!”
We can agree on this, it’s simple. And we are going in circles. Just continue doing what you do. In a few years we will put a Republican back in the White House and you can go back to defending the President instead of attacking him even if he does the exact same things as Obama.
