Where Were You 9/11/01?

Off Topic
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[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I was working as plane dispatcher at the time. I was actually on the phone right before the attacks happened trying to help some putz guide his plane to a safe landing. He barely spoke a word of english and I swear he must have been mixing up 99% of what I was telling him to do, so I gave up and ended the call on him.

2 minutes later, BAM, North tower gets hit.

I never found out what happened to that guy I was on the phone with, but I got fired the next day and honestly, for the life of me I still can’t figure out why. [/quote]

Hahaha. That’s hilariously fucked up.

It’s all right because you’re Canadian. Tell a joke like that here and even now 12 years later people will look at you with a vague expression of horrified distaste. “Oh my gawd how can you joke about that? That’s so insensitive.”[/quote]

No, its not funny, and, no, its not alright to joke about it. I lost a brother on that day.

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[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I was working as plane dispatcher at the time. I was actually on the phone right before the attacks happened trying to help some putz guide his plane to a safe landing. He barely spoke a word of english and I swear he must have been mixing up 99% of what I was telling him to do, so I gave up and ended the call on him.

2 minutes later, BAM, North tower gets hit.

I never found out what happened to that guy I was on the phone with, but I got fired the next day and honestly, for the life of me I still can’t figure out why. [/quote]

Hahaha. That’s hilariously fucked up.

It’s all right because you’re Canadian. Tell a joke like that here and even now 12 years later people will look at you with a vague expression of horrified distaste. “Oh my gawd how can you joke about that? That’s so insensitive.”[/quote]

No, its not funny, and, no, its not alright to joke about it. I lost a brother on that day. [/quote]

There ya go, Ryuu. See what I mean?

Idaho, I’m very sorry you lost your brother.

That said, Ryuu’s post was funny. Tasteless and insensitive maybe, but a lot of funny jokes are. It was like the Asiana Airlines crash that someone had erroneously (and jokingly) reported the pilots’ names as “Sum Ting Wong”, “Wi Tu Lo”, “Ho Lee Fuk” and “Bang Ding Ow”. This was racist, offensive, insensitive to anyone with a family member aboard that airliner, and irresponsible journalism.

It was also funny as fuck.

Life is tragedy, and life is comedy. All too soon, you will die, like everyone who has ever walked this planet, and everyone who ever will. Laugh at life, tragedy and all, or it will laugh at you.

63

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I was working as plane dispatcher at the time. I was actually on the phone right before the attacks happened trying to help some putz guide his plane to a safe landing. He barely spoke a word of english and I swear he must have been mixing up 99% of what I was telling him to do, so I gave up and ended the call on him.

2 minutes later, BAM, North tower gets hit.

I never found out what happened to that guy I was on the phone with, but I got fired the next day and honestly, for the life of me I still can’t figure out why. [/quote]

Hahaha. That’s hilariously fucked up.

It’s all right because you’re Canadian. Tell a joke like that here and even now 12 years later people will look at you with a vague expression of horrified distaste. “Oh my gawd how can you joke about that? That’s so insensitive.”[/quote]

No, its not funny, and, no, its not alright to joke about it. I lost a brother on that day. [/quote]

There ya go, Ryuu. See what I mean?

Idaho, I’m very sorry you lost your brother.

That said, Ryuu’s post was funny. Tasteless and insensitive maybe, but a lot of funny jokes are. It was like the Asiana Airlines crash that someone had erroneously (and jokingly) reported the pilots’ names as “Sum Ting Wong”, “Wi Tu Lo”, “Ho Lee Fuk” and “Bang Ding Ow”. This was racist, offensive, insensitive to anyone with a family member aboard that airliner, and irresponsible journalism.

It was also funny as fuck.

Life is tragedy, and life is comedy. All too soon, you will die, like everyone who has ever walked this planet, and everyone who ever will. Laugh at life, tragedy and all, or it will laugh at you.
[/quote]

I think the timing of a tasteless joke is something to consider. For example, joking about 9/11 on 9/11 is pretty fucked up especially coming from a foreigner.

Class folks it’s not dead, but the embers are dying.

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[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
I was working as plane dispatcher at the time. I was actually on the phone right before the attacks happened trying to help some putz guide his plane to a safe landing. He barely spoke a word of english and I swear he must have been mixing up 99% of what I was telling him to do, so I gave up and ended the call on him.

2 minutes later, BAM, North tower gets hit.

I never found out what happened to that guy I was on the phone with, but I got fired the next day and honestly, for the life of me I still can’t figure out why. [/quote]

Hahaha. That’s hilariously fucked up.

It’s all right because you’re Canadian. Tell a joke like that here and even now 12 years later people will look at you with a vague expression of horrified distaste. “Oh my gawd how can you joke about that? That’s so insensitive.”[/quote]

No, its not funny, and, no, its not alright to joke about it. I lost a brother on that day. [/quote]

There ya go, Ryuu. See what I mean?

Idaho, I’m very sorry you lost your brother.

That said, Ryuu’s post was funny. Tasteless and insensitive maybe, but a lot of funny jokes are. It was like the Asiana Airlines crash that someone had erroneously (and jokingly) reported the pilots’ names as “Sum Ting Wong”, “Wi Tu Lo”, “Ho Lee Fuk” and “Bang Ding Ow”. This was racist, offensive, insensitive to anyone with a family member aboard that airliner, and irresponsible journalism.

It was also funny as fuck.

Life is tragedy, and life is comedy. All too soon, you will die, like everyone who has ever walked this planet, and everyone who ever will. Laugh at life, tragedy and all, or it will laugh at you.
[/quote]

Attached is another COMPLETELY TASTELESS example I saw on Tumblr yesterday. I hesitated to even attach it because it’s complete garbage, but a picture is worth a 1,000 words right.

The thing is some 12 year old Japanese kid probably put it together. I’d expect grown men and women to have a bit more common sense.

65

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
The thing is some 12 year old Japanese kid probably put it together. I’d expect grown men and women to have a bit more common sense.
[/quote]

I do not think Japanese kids particularly care about the Xbox at all.

If I had to guess, it would be some American kid. And not young at that.

But, ya, that thing is beyond tasteless.

66

I wasn’t comfortable posting this yesterday.

While his word choice and presentation crossed many lines (in my mind), I think his points and concerns are valid.

[quote]That’s a video clip of camouflaged men with machine guns going house by house in a Boston neighborhood after the marathon bombing. Some of you watching that immediately thought, “Wait, the Army was just barging into people’s houses during the manhunt?”

Haha, don’t be ridiculous. The military doesn’t do that in America, think about how weird that would be. No, those are police officers.[/quote]

If you can stomach the presentation, I think it’s worth a read.

67

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I wasn’t comfortable posting this yesterday.

While his word choice and presentation crossed many lines (in my mind), I think his points and concerns are valid.

[quote]That’s a video clip of camouflaged men with machine guns going house by house in a Boston neighborhood after the marathon bombing. Some of you watching that immediately thought, “Wait, the Army was just barging into people’s houses during the manhunt?”

Haha, don’t be ridiculous. The military doesn’t do that in America, think about how weird that would be. No, those are police officers.[/quote]

If you can stomach the presentation, I think it’s worth a read.[/quote]

I didn’t read the whole thing, but right off the bat “Terrorism works” is 100% accurate. Case and point Boston after the bombing and the TSA.

68

This is going to derail the thread, but =(

See. I agree that the terrorists effectively won a moral victory post 9/11. The events that followed the Boston Marathon bombing is absurd, to say the least.

And, yet, we know that there would have been numerous airplane bombings following 9/11 if the security measures weren’t implemented, and we can only imagine countless more that were dismissed out of hand because of increased security.

So, my question is, more security is needed, but where do you draw the line? Or do we simply accept that the next time you go onto a plane, you might be a victim of a bomb or a hijacking and don’t do any security?

69

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I wasn’t comfortable posting this yesterday.[/quote]

Glad you got over your discomfort.

"Because they’ve told us that our modern world is made entirely of glass, we just accept that this is how it is, that we’re all on display, all the time. And it’s all by necessity because it’s a Post-9/11 World, and that ends the discussion. And please note: It will still be a Post-9/11 World a hundred years from now, because that’s how time works.

"And over time, we’ll just come to accept that typing a weird search into Google might get you a visit from the cops, that a crude joke on Facebook might get you arrested and/or fired, that certain things uttered in phone calls might land you on a no-fly list, that suspicious conversations might be recorded by a nearby pair of Google Glasses. And so, over time, you make a mental note to not say anything too weird, or make crude jokes, or think too far outside the box. You’ll learn to automatically rein in that crazy, irresponsible part of the brain that incidentally also has resulted in all human creativity through history.

"Sure, it’s not like some controversial comment on Twitter will get you sent to a gulag. It may merely get you a day spent in a hot interrogation room and your computer seized for a few months. Just a little reminder to watch what you say, and what you think, at all times. They don’t have to throw you in prison, they just have to harass you enough that you’ll remember next time. And the fire that makes us human grows just a little dimmer, and we shrug and say, What can we do? After all, it’s a Post-9/11 World.

“And apparently it always will be.”

This is what the terrorists winning looks like.

70

[quote]magick wrote:
And, yet, we know that there would have been numerous airplane bombings following 9/11 if the security measures weren’t implemented, and we can only imagine countless more that were dismissed out of hand because of increased security.[/quote]

This is fact based off what?

How do full body scanners at BWI keep me safe from aiplane bombings in a way previous measures didn’t?

71

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:
And, yet, we know that there would have been numerous airplane bombings following 9/11 if the security measures weren’t implemented, and we can only imagine countless more that were dismissed out of hand because of increased security.[/quote]

This is fact based off what?

How do full body scanners at BWI keep me safe from aiplane bombings in a way previous measures didn’t?[/quote]

The shoe bomber and the underwear bomber are two notable examples in recent memory.

And, yes, that is roughly my point. Where is the line? Is the line at metal detectors? Or is it a full body search of everyone who wants to get on the plane?

The argument that I recall put out by the TSA was that plastic bombs are a thing, and so metal detectors don’t just cut it anymore.

But that’s like saying that anyone could break into my home at any time, and so I should have metal rails on my windows, or something.

I know home invasions happen, and yet I don’t do everything in my power to protect myself from them. Hell, I sleep with my window open because I like the breeze.

72

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:
And, yet, we know that there would have been numerous airplane bombings following 9/11 if the security measures weren’t implemented, and we can only imagine countless more that were dismissed out of hand because of increased security.[/quote]

This is fact based off what?

How do full body scanners at BWI keep me safe from aiplane bombings in a way previous measures didn’t?[/quote]

The shoe bomber and the underwear bomber are two notable examples in recent memory.

And, yes, that is roughly my point. Where is the line? Is the line at metal detectors? Or is it a full body search of everyone who wants to get on the plane?

The argument that I recall put out by the TSA was that plastic bombs are a thing, and so metal detectors don’t just cut it anymore.

But that’s like saying that anyone could break into my home at any time, and so I should have metal rails on my windows, or something.

I know home invasions happen, and yet I don’t do everything in my power to protect myself from them. Hell, I sleep with my window open because I like the breeze.[/quote]

Ya, well that’s what happens when people don’t want to take responsibility for their own safety. You get body scanners and random searches, you know, for your protection. Case and point, small pocket knives were allowed for about 7 minutes a few months ago until everyone freaked the fuck out. Cause a pocket knife is serious business…

73

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Ya, well that’s what happens when people don’t want to take responsibility for their own safety. You get body scanners and random searches, you know, for your protection. Case and point, small pocket knives were allowed for about 7 minutes a few months ago until everyone freaked the fuck out. Cause a pocket knife is serious business…

[/quote]

This is again off-topic, but how do you take responsibility for your own safety on a plane?

74

Terrorism works because it frightens people into pleading with their government to keep them safe, which the government can only do by exerting more control. But draconian control can’t prevent uncontrollable fear, which is the definition of terror. And ironically, the people are willing to accept more damage to their society at the hands of their own government than the terrorists would ever be able to inflict.

Want to win the war against terror? Stop being so fucking afraid.

75

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Ya, well that’s what happens when people don’t want to take responsibility for their own safety. You get body scanners and random searches, you know, for your protection. Case and point, small pocket knives were allowed for about 7 minutes a few months ago until everyone freaked the fuck out. Cause a pocket knife is serious business…

[/quote]

This is again off-topic, but how do you take responsibility for your own safety on a plane?[/quote]

Be aware of your surroundings at all times, same as off a plane. And if you can’t find ten things to use as a deadly weapon on a typical airliner, you are simply not using your imagination.

76

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Ya, well that’s what happens when people don’t want to take responsibility for their own safety. You get body scanners and random searches, you know, for your protection. Case and point, small pocket knives were allowed for about 7 minutes a few months ago until everyone freaked the fuck out. Cause a pocket knife is serious business…

[/quote]

This is again off-topic, but how do you take responsibility for your own safety on a plane?[/quote]

Well that’s the point; you can’t because you can’t even carry a pocket knife on board. Obviously you can’t control the plane itself, but we don’t worry about the pilot do we? If someone pulls a box cutter out you and others can confront him. That’s you taking responsibility.

A bomb is a different story, but it’s a different story in a Wal-Mart too.

77

Well, a bomb or something that you really have no control over is what I had more in mind.

I mean, someone takes out a knife? In such a tight space and a shit-ton of baggage everywhere, a knife seems positively harmless.

Guns are another story. So are bombs.

78

[quote]magick wrote:
Well, a bomb or something that you really have no control over is what I had more in mind.

I mean, someone takes out a knife? In such a tight space and a shit-ton of baggage everywhere, a knife seems positively harmless.

Guns are another story. So are bombs.[/quote]

A bomb is certainly a different story. It all comes down to how much freedom we want to surrender for security. I believe we’ve gone too far and Boston is a prime example of this.

We could go back and forth about air travel. I’d argue against many of the TSA measure, but at the end of the day there are much softer targets than air planes anyway.

79

Considering what low standards TSA has in hiring its personnel, if I were running a terrorist organization I would have a number of members infiltrate TSA, who would “overlook” bombs and weapons in the bags and on the persons of other members passing through security checkpoints.

The security measures are always cobbled together to prevent the last attack, not the next one. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. And if there’s one thing terrorists have, it’s will.

80

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Well, I was in Japan at the time, so if memory serves it had actually been September 12 for about half an hour.

I was with three co-workers and a couple of Sony execs in a restaurant owned by one of my friends in Shinjuku. We were talking and laughing and drinking, when my American co-worker got a call on his cell phone. A plane had collided with one of the World Trade Center towers. We didn’t think much of it except, “gosh, that’s unprecedented. What a stupid pilot” and went back to our meal.

Then the next call came. The second tower had been hit. The mood changed. All of us realized that this was no accident. Over the next hour he got new information: some of it accurate, some not. Missiles had hit the Capitol building and the Pentagon. A bomb had gone off in the White House. Another plane had kamikaze’d the Washington Mall.

It wasn’t until I got home and watched the coverage of the plane crashes and the towers falling that I understood the whole magnitude of the event. I turned off the TV and cried.

Funny thing was, I had been in Washington just two months previously, and as soon as the plane touched down I had the most awful premonition: like what would I do to get out of Washington with the two Japanese women I was accompanying to a Sony conference of there was a serious terrorist incident. Premonition was correct, just a couple months early.

The other funny thing is that a year earlier, I had been offered a very nice job at Merrill Lynch. The money was great, the job seemed very interesting, and it would have involved six months in Tokyo, six months in Hong Hong, then on to Headquarters. For some reason I had a strong feeling that I should not take the job. Had I taken it, there is little doubt where I would have been on that particular day. [/quote]

I was in Taiwan and when it’s 9:00 AM in new York it’s 9:00 PM in Taiwan, and I was out walking and came back to my apartment and by then both towers had collapsed and my roommate at the time told me everything and it was surreal how overwhelming it was. I remember saying “THE TOWERS ARE GONE?!?”
I fucking hate that day.