Now there is a real lumpy pile of Canadian shit if I ever smelled one. I know you folks up there are used to shitting out in the open, but we are more respectful in this country. Take it somewhere else foreigner.
[quote]vroom wrote:
…systematic does not mean that everyone there did so. It means that it was practices by the military command structure. [/quote]
Exactly. For example the Free Fire zones that were established. Anyone in the zone was fair game, whether they were a civilian or not. If you were in the zone and moving you were a target.
vroom,
The French have said, on more than one occasion, that they will not support any of our actions in Iraq. Especially those actions that would require them to commit troops to the area. This makes Kerry’s promises of involving them in this process meaningless.
I don’t know why the French, German, and Russian support in this is so critical. They made their stand by crawling in bed with Sadaam, and somehow we are wrong not to listen to them, or gain their support?
That just ain’t right.
Heh, nice try Chen, bastion of reasoned discourse that you are. People are still posting things like “there is a time for peace, but it is not now”.
There is absolutely a residual bloodlust or desire for revenge in some of the population. Grow up and face the truth. It’s human nature. So it isn’t pretty.
If you’ve been following my posts you know I’m not against the use of force to combat terrorism. Find something useful to complain about instead of some childish anal/shit insult combined with cries of “outsider”.
Yep, another proud republican showing his true colors.
Rainjack, I hear ya. I’m not quite saying what you think I’m saying. It is possible for allies to disagree, but they should stay allies.
The Bush administration draws a line in the sand and forces the relationship to sour when the agreement isn’t made. This is what is wrong.
Keeping good working relations with foreign countries is simply wise. There is no need to burn these friendships just because they see things differently.
Heck, whether or not these countries will ever participate in any way in Iraq isn’t the issue. However, I’ll bet you if Bush hadn’t of been so devisive, that such a negative stand would not have been taken.
Can Kerry open the door? Possibly not in time to get troops in Iraq. Can he get more help on spending or perhaps in training Iraqi soldiers or police forces outside of Iraq? Maybe.
If he can simply spread the dollar cost he will be doing a good job. The deficit will come home to roost eventually.
Anyway, thats what I think. I’m not trying to say Kerry can work miracles and that all of a sudden we can expect everyone to commit troops to Iraq and that everything will be immediately solved. I’m also not suggesting that the US needs approval or agreement in order to take action.
[quote]vroom wrote:
The Bush administration draws a line in the sand and forces the relationship to sour when the agreement isn’t made. This is what is wrong.
Keeping good working relations with foreign countries is simply wise. There is no need to burn these friendships just because they see things differently.
[/quote]
I’m not so sure that we’ve turned our back on the Big 3. Not to the extent that you, or the Kerry folks seem to think we have.
I think the big riff in th US’s relationship with them is a temporary one. However, France has a fairly storied history of resenting the U.S… Germany, as well. Russia - well - who the hell knows what Putin has up his sleeve.
I don’t really see the US burning any bridges - especially with our Old World cousins. This is a disagreement that will right itself over time.
Just because Kerry is well liked by a resentful European populace does not mean he will be able to be any more effective in dealing with their gov’ts than Bush has been.
In a perfect world, all nations would hold hands and sing Kumbaya. Until such time, I’d just as soon be taking the war to the enemy - even if it pisses the French off.
[quote]
There is absolutely a residual bloodlust or desire for revenge in some of the population. Grow up and face the truth. It’s human nature. So it isn’t pretty.
Yep, another proud republican showing his true colors.[/quote]
If you want to switch your comment to “bloodlust in some part of the popution” that’s fine. Pay more attention to how you characterize this nation, and you won’t get yourself into trouble.
Thanks for helping me grow though. Since I’m already over 40, I guess it’s about time.
I am not registered with any party. I have to vote repub because my only other choice is Kerry.
Bloodlust? You call it bloodlust when people want you dead so you go and kill them first? You call it bloodlust when someone comes into your house at night and kills your 9 year old daughter in her sleep for no reason. Then you go out and start killing scumbags so that other little girls might not suffer the same fate?
Vroom my frind. You analyze to the point of no return, you have a retort for every comment and all of your retorts are only whimsical possibilities. something like…
Well it is possible that X is true but is it really the case when Y could also be a possibility that we should act on it?
You always seem to say a whole lot of Hypothetical can’t find the real truth type statements. The problem with these thoughts in a time where people want us dead is that we don’t have the luxury of taking forever to find what the right path is. We have to trust our human intuition, our guts, our preceptions and our morals to act now, defend ourselves and hope we make the right choices.
Listen brother, I understand where you are coming from. I see things the way you do, maybe more so. The world is not ready to accept the depth of thinking that you are proposing. 90% of the world is still going to act on a much more emotional and semi chaotic level. If we became a country of spiritual intelects who chose the path of purity and righteousness, we would be crushed in 5 years or less.
Thankfully, there are still a lot of people in this country who will get there hands dirty and kick ass when they need to. Some actually like this and want to do it. These are the people you don’t understand, the people who would knock you out if they felt you looked at them wrong in a bar. I have met these people they are for real, they will ultimately fight and possibly die so that you can sit comfortably and contemplate the universe.
Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins
See, you are doing well until you get into this type of stuff. In particular, whether or not the French are pissed off has nothing to do with taking the war to the enemy.
You can take the war to the enemy without turning friends into enemies, even if they don’t agree with you. The Bush administration has done a very poor job of this.
I’m not looking for a time when everyone can sing Kumbaya and I’m not trying to state that the US should choose it’s actions based on the opinion of other countries.
[qoute]These are the people you don’t understand, the people who would knock you out if they felt you looked at them wrong in a bar.[/quote]
Veg, what gives you the impression I wouldn’t understand? I’ve dealt with an awful lot of different people in my time.
No, not at all. However, I do call it bloodlust when there is a rush to war and people are clamoring for the ability to go kill someone. The people you are fighting in Iraq today are not the people that were trying to inflict damage on the US. That was Al-Queda.
Not everyone agrees that it was necessary to attack Iraq for the purpose of keeping the US safe. However, after 9/11 there was a great need to strike out, to strike back. What would you term the desire to go out and attack something, to go find some enemies to kill?
It doesn’t sound very admirable when I use the words I have. I know that. I’m trying to get people to look into their motives, into the motives of their leaders, and into the motives of the country. I’m not here to pat everyone on the back and tell them everything they think and say is absolutely perfect.
Oh, and that makes me different than most people on here? What would you have me do, send an army overseas? I’m not actually in control of very much, so there is very little I can do but think and discuss. Much like yourself.
My retorts are no more whimsical possibilities than statements made by anybody else, including yourself. I call bullshit on this one. You may not like my opinion or agree with my opinion, but it doesn’t make it any weaker or any more incorrect than yours.
People on here ask for alternative ideas and suggestions, I’ve posted them again and again. People on here make amazingly silly claims, I’m pointing out the flaws in them. What else would you have me do in a forum? What else is anyone doing in the forum?
Is the problem that I’m good at it and it’s hard to stick things on me?
[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
Now there is a real lumpy pile of Canadian shit if I ever smelled one. I know you folks up there are used to shitting out in the open, but we are more respectful in this country. Take it somewhere else foreigner.[/quote]
Occasionally comments in the forum cross the line of decency.
I believe this is one of those times.
[quote]Lumpy wrote:
Occasionally comments in the forum cross the line of decency.
I believe this is one of those times.
[/quote]
Yes, Vroom’s reference to the US national bloodlust was quite out of line.