Think like a hippy, think like a hippy…
“I’m lazy and I hate to work… I want everything handed to me… I’m just like - a child”
[quote]Chris McClinch wrote:
Nothing at all wrong with wanting to earn a good living, though I do think you’d be setting yourself up for unhappiness and frustration if you went into a field you weren’t otherwise interested in to chase a paycheck. If you find finance inherently interesting, you’re on the right track. If you find it boring but lucrative, start looking for ways to make money doing something you actually enjoy. People with talent and drive can make money in pretty much any field; people without them will always be calling others sellouts.[/quote]
Chris speaks the truth. The satisfaction from doing something you love each day is the ultimate. More often than not by finding this first, and then excelling at whatever you choose, the money will find you.
As for the hippies, I know that experience. I went to UMass, a place full of them. Everyone is full of ideals in college when they have no responsibilities and someone else is paying the freight.
I am trying to figure out where you are going with this post. What is “serious money” for you? Average starting salary for finance majors is about $45k this year. Pretty good right out of school. And talking about being the CFO of a company? Thats a pretty friggin high position, the top finance guy, yeah, might need some more education. It seems like, for you, “serious money” is in the millions: Guess what… Any major can get you that kind of money if you work up to the top of your field, or can start your own business. NONE will get you that kind until you put some work in and get some experience.
FWIW, I am a finance major, and cant wait to start making 45k a year.
[quote]BB4506 wrote:
interesting topic. I am currently a sophmore and i’ve been really struggling with a choice of major. Currently I am a finance major like you, but I am really having doubts about it. The more I look at the world of finance…the less I seem to be interested in it. I know everyone says to do what you love and not worry about the money…but i really worry about the money end of it. There doesn’t seem to be any money in banking until you’ve put in some serious time(like 20 years) and start your own bank or get promoted. And to be a CFO of a company you need to get your MBA…
It seems like it would be so much simpler to go to med or law school. Even though it seems like more time in school…is it really? By the time you put in 4-5 years for your undergaduate degree then go for your masters you’re not far away from the time it takes to go through law school.
My initial aspirations were to be an engineer, but i’m not sure what kind of possibilities there are with being an engineer.
Damn…this stuff just gives me a headache thinking about it. It sucks realizing that you don’t have forever left to decide what you want to do…[/quote]
BB4506, I was in your shoes about 5-6 years ago. I had to choose between Finance and Sports Medicine. I choose Finance as a major and have been a Financial Analyst for the last ferw years. I make a pretty good living, but I hate my job. It’s boring and if you have seen the movie “Office Space”, I am Peter Gibbons. DO WHAT YOU LOVE TO DO. Just my opinion. Good Luck with school.
[quote]Chris McClinch wrote:
Nothing at all wrong with wanting to earn a good living, though I do think you’d be setting yourself up for unhappiness and frustration if you went into a field you weren’t otherwise interested in to chase a paycheck. If you find finance inherently interesting, you’re on the right track. If you find it boring but lucrative, start looking for ways to make money doing something you actually enjoy. People with talent and drive can make money in pretty much any field; people without them will always be calling others sellouts.[/quote]
IMHO this is great adivice; I graduated in finance 2 1/2 years ago and have been working full time ever since. My job is finance related, and I can honestly say I hate it. The situation that I am in is my fault. While in school I went with the “safe” major, knowing that I would probably get a job that pays well, and I have, but it does not mean a thing. I was happier when I was dead broke in school. If you really think that working on Wall Street is something you would enjoy, go for it. If you are going just for the money, don’t do it, change your major and take a different path NOW. Do not end up in the situation that I am currently in, looking for a way to go back to school so I can pursue a more rewarding career path.
In a sense what your hippy friends are saying is correct, do not give in to greed and make money your end goal, choose a career that you will love and do for the right reasons, and the money will come as a means to an end.
BB4506 -
I suggest that you take this opportunity to enroll in a few classes in an area or two that you have some interest while still pursuing your degree in Finance. This will aid you in determining if Finance or some other area is right for you. As a sophmore, you are still primarily focusing on basic classes such as math, english, etc., and these credits can be used in all most any curriculum.
Likewise, if you pursue your degree in Finance or some other area and are unhappy with your chosen career choice after a few years in the work place, you can always go back to school or receive some sort of formal training in another area. For example, most med students are in their late 30s to early 40s.
Any way, good luck in your pursuit.
[quote]BB4506 wrote:
…
My initial aspirations were to be an engineer, but i’m not sure what kind of possibilities there are with being an engineer.
…[/quote]
Engineer jobs can suck. Most
“engineering” jobs out there do very little engineering.
Engineering can also be quite cool if you are in the right position. It is finding that position that is tough.
Do what interests you.
Money is good, the more the better, just don’t fall in love with it…
[quote]BB4506 wrote:
[/quote]
In any of the careers you mentioned you will not be hurting for money.
If you are doing something you like then you will be motivated to do a good job, and will advance, and make more money.
Money comes from you and your ambition, not just a particular skill set or degree. For instance, I know plenty of engineers who are laid off and can’t get work because everything is being outsourced to asia. I don’t have that problem. Why? Because I am constantly studying and learning and working on improving my own market value. They did not. So a degree or skill set is not enough.
In the same way, whatever field you go into, you are not guaranteed a paycheck, especially in today’s world. You have to keep improving yourself. If you are working in a career that you are very unhappy with, it will be hard to improve yourself because you don’t want to think about work when you get home.
Be thankful you at least have a choice.
[quote]BB4506 wrote:
Damn…this stuff just gives me a headache thinking about it. It sucks realizing that you don’t have forever left to decide what you want to do…[/quote]
Yes you do. My mom has been a field nurse in the soviet army, a school teacher, a university professor, a translator, she has written a book on biorhythms, has worked on some neuroscience studies, has been a dance instructor, a yoga instructor, a home care worker, and has done some intelligence work, and probably a few other things.
My point is, you can change careers if you want to. The decisions you make now don’t have to be forever. I am planning to go into a field that I like, but don’t love. I’ll probably hate it after a few years, but if I do, I’ll just move on.
Seems like you are getting a lot of the same advice from a variety of people. First, forget what your “friends” saying. You know how the saying goes - “with friends like these, who needs enemies”. Next, do what you like. As mentioned, all of the jobs discussed in this post can result in big paydays - finance, engineering, etc. If you truly love what you are doing, you will put the time and effort into it to do it well, which will result in a payout.
I have been in the investment business for over a decade (I am in FL). Like you want to do, I have my MBA and CFA. The money can be great (Eddie Lampert, who engineered the K-Mart/Sears deal earned himself around $1 Billion which is WAY beyond great) - but if you don’t like what you are doing, you are simply a slave to the paycheck. I have plenty of friends in NYC working for each of the various investment banks. Until you get to a certain level, there is a lot of “face time”. In other words, you can expect to be there very late simply so people can see you.
Before you decide on anything - explore the culture, the people and the job itself. If you go into something you like and know what you are getting into, then you have a real recipe for success! Good luck.
“Greedy?” Stealing from people is greedy. Earning for yourself while contributing to society is not. Tell them to either join the peace corp. or get a real job. Either way they should get off their high horse and their lazy ass.
Here is an outline of the answer you’re probably looking for.
My intention here isn’t to argue for or against any of these points, I just want to answer your question by stating what people who grit their teeth and say “Yuppie scum…” are actually thinking.
For example, some people equate chasing the dollar to subscribing to the philosophy of consumerism. (Eisenhower’s 1953 council of economic advisors noted that the American economy’s “ultimate purpose” was to “produce more consumer goods.”)
Consumerism for its own sake is often considered to have many negative side effects over the long term:
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The gradual introduction and now in most urban areas requirement of the two-income family. This is not suggesting it is wrong for everyone to desire to work, just that the pattern has shifted from this being optional to mandatory in most large cities.
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The proliferation of the single occupant vehicle style commuter. This of course leads to increased traffic, increased pollution, road rage, etc.
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Urban sprawl, and increased housing costs. Both leading to increased traffic, pollution, etc. People of more middle-class means get priced farther and farther into the sticks, are forced into multi-hour commutes for urban jobs, etc.
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Widespread personal debt. A giant game of keeping up with the Jones’s and easily available credit cards and lines of credit are tempt many people into the red.
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Subscription to “thing-based” values (“materialism”) rather than “people-based” values.
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Planned obsolescence.
Then some other people may associate your pursuing a career in finance as subscribing to the philosophy of bottom line economics. There are many things that people negatively associate with this economic philosophy:
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Closing down domestic workplaces (American factories, say) and replacing them with cheap, overseas labor.
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The outsourcing of domestic jobs. A very hot issues for the past couple of years.
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The profileration of the McJob. Why hire someone for full time with benefits when you can hire two people part time with no benefits? Why encourage people to develop skills and improve themselves if you can keep them unskilled and justify paying them less?
And some people may associate people with finance-based dreams with what they consider the erosion of community and culture.
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Gentrification. Yuppies drive working class people out of their traditional neighborhoods and replace their bowling allies with day spas.
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Erosion of the family. The tradition of family dinner time vanishes with mom and dad working late, fast food replaces food, etc. Stress is brought home, as are status-seeking values.
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“Generica”. Big boxes replacing mom and pop local business, reducing wages, adding to traffic, etc. Identical shopping centre and identical retail outlets and identical restaurants appear in every town, state, country. Local flavour vanishes.
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Loss of community. Houses become speculative real estate investments rather than homes. Neighbors are anonymous, sidewalks are barren. Neighborhoods are not walkable.
And still others may see people pursuing certain paths as contributing to a variety of envrionmental issues, also side effects of consumerism:
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“Wasted” energy from producing various luxury goods.
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“Garbage” produced by the use of disposable products. The fact that disposable products vs. long lasting quality products has become the norm is simply seen as wasteful.
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Gas-hogging vehicles.
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The widespread environmental damage created as a byproduct of the chemical industry, ranging from carcinogens to estrogen-mimics found in plastics, fertilizers, pesticides, etc.
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Factory farming, etc.
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Nature’s “value” defined strictly in terms of human use.
Or perhaps they see you as contributing to a culture where overwork, stress, and fatigue becomes the expectation rather than a choice. This does not mean they are lazy, but that perhaps they seek a work/life balance where work is 40 hours, and family, community and so on fills in the rest.
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Burnout and stress-related disorders in people now appear in the 20’s rather than the 40’s.
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Americans on average forfit 20% of their vacation.
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Chronic fatigue may be responsible for up to 50% of all traffic fatalities.
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Rage is everywhere, and everyone appears to be rushing, even your doctor rushing you out the door.
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With email, faxes, the net, and telecommuting work has been expanding to fill every hour and location.
The irony here is that in 1956, Americans were told that the 4 day work week was quickly approaching, but now Americans have found themselves working more and more over the past 30 or so years.
The desire for “downshifting” has been prevalent for over a decade now, where people drop from the rat race and a high tempo life. Perhaps some people have genuine concern for you and don’t want you to burn out in a high pressure existence, have your first heart attack at 30, be divorced twice by 35, etc.
And some people may protest because they associate your career choice as buying into the ideology of the multinational corporatation.
The list of things that many people do not like about the giant corporations is endless, but it includes accusations such as:
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Stockholder interests preferred to employee interests. (Downsizing, outsourcing, offshoring, etc.)
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All of the foreign slave-labor work conditions arguments.
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A weakening of democracy due to the influence of big business on government.
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Exploitive practises.
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The hubris involved in things like the Enron Scandal.
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Global destruction of indigenous cultures and traditional ways of life.
Then there is a matter of economic ideology.
Some people simply don’t believe that “endless growth” is possible or practical, but it is the required philosophy for a career on Wallstreet, no? But starting with some thinkers such as Schumacher back in the 60’s (“small is beautiful”), there is a whole other outlook on how business and economics should be modeled.
For example, those who feel strongly that the GDP/GNP is a very harmful measure of success, and needs to be replaced with the GPI (the “Redefining Progress” people). They may feel you’re maintaining the status quo, and that this is a dangerous move.
A last issue is the global distribution and consumption of resources. If every person on earth lived the lifestyle of the average American (or Canadian), it would take something like 5-6 planet Earth’s to sustain it. (The statistic being someting like with 3% of the world’s population Americans consume 50% of the available resources.) One can look at this fact and say, “It sucks to be everyone else!” Or one can look at this fact and conclude that North Americans have have a responsibility to start scaling back a bit because chasing a high power high money lifestyle doesn’t leave the rest of the world with so much as a chance.
So, in sum:
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Some people feel that growth is a false promise and that people cannot keep pace with inflation.
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Some people feel that the rat race, materialism, etc. has a high human cost.
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Some people are concerned that big corporate practises lead to destruction of the environment and then some.
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Some people feel that affluent Western lifestyles essentially take opportunity away from the less fortunate.
I’m certainly not suggesting that this is a list of your goals or that these will be the direct results of your life choices.
But, these are the kinds of things that some of your “hippie friends” may associate with a “power career” in NYC, and with contemporary Western values in general.