Gotcha … its 40mg per ml its liquid so thats hard to measure… is 40MG eod ok? Or will that big a dose do harm?
HCG long term isnt a big deal its standard TRT protocal… If you mean PCT just taper off… Tons of good PCT stickies out there… Almost everyone Ive seen cycle including myself prefers HCG… Honestly never heard of one bad side or seen one myself
You’re correct. The 2 week wait period is based on the half life of the ester, but does not take into account the accumulated levels of drug in the body.
I dont have the reference now but I remember in Prisoners test taper thread he mentioned levels need to drop below 100mg for suppression to cease and SERM to start working. Which does make sense, cant expect the SERM to activate the HPTA if high levels of hormones are still exerting negative feedback to keep the hypothalamus/pituitary suppressed.
SB
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It would be interesting to see some scientific data backing this. Iv been doing a lot of research well as much as possible in the last day lol but I can’t seem to find any scientific data backing test tapering or anything showing at exactly what level needs to be reached for the serm to become effective.
If we use the 100mg point then someone using 2 grams a week wouldn’t start pct til almost 9 weeks after last injection this is what’s getting me hung up on using the half life/almost complete elimination as a guide for pct rather then using the active life of the ester of simply 2 weeks.
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Yes thats right, thats why the test taper method has a 6 week stasis period where you inject 100mg/wk of test prop while waiting for the long esters to clear and then commencing PCT as normal while tapering off the test prop.
I too do not have any scientific evidence for this approach, all I can say is that the method works wonders. After having many failed “conventional” PCT’s even when doing everything perfectly, the test taper had my levels back to normal within days of finishing the SERM compared to waiting months post-PCT to get back to normal.
SB
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Ok this method makes sense to me using a prop ester while the longer ester eliminates then moving into pct this i understand.
But my understanding of the test taper was there is no pct drugs. You literally taper off the test while your natural production kicks back in.
Hey I’m a firm believer in science but I’m also a firm believer in some shit works and science can’t explain it. As I always say there is good bro science and bad bro science. I def see the logic behind tapering off the long ester with prop then moving into pct. I do not see the logic behind the claims of no pct just taper test
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Ah understood. Whenever I refer to the test taper I always refer to the 6 week stasis followed by conventional SERM PCT. My bad bro if I wasnt clear.
I wouldnt ever taper off test without SERMs in the mix.
SB
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So if I use HCG let’s say 500ius a week on cycle. Would I need to ramp that dose up during the period while I’m waiting for the ester to clear? Or keep it the same until the ester clears and then begin PCT. I plan on doing blood work throughout cycle so when PCT time comes around I’ll make sure my levels are at normal before I start the PCT protocol.
I wouldn’t ramp up the dose. Keep it the same and taper off as you get closer to starting PCT.
SB
Don’t ramp it up. I’ve seen insane protocols where guys are going to 3,500+ a week for some reason and it’s totally unnecessary. A little goes a long way in keeping your testes functioning.
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Interesting you say that. I know a guy who was on and off tren and all kinds of gear for years without coming off and decided he wanted a kid. So he casually says to me “yeah I shot 5000iu in a single injection and now my girls pregnant”. (I do not advise this by the way)
Some people are just lucky as fuck when it comes to gear.
SB
I’d start with 1/2ml if possible with the clomid. Clomid is a little weaker than nolva/mg.
i keep seeing you in the forums and you always have good advise. have you used hcg during cycle? if so was recovery better?
ahhh just got my clomid…I took a full ML/40mg my balls hurt so bad… vision got a lil blurry but nards feel better allready… That stuff works fast… Thanks bro
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I would ramp up. 500 iu a week is more for maintenance of the size and function of the testicles. You may see some shrinkage with that amount of HCG, but it will be minimized, you will likely still be producing some testosterone too.
The reason to keep HCG low during cycle is estrogen. HCG is pretty estrogenic (more than test is, but I have not been able to quantify it). It just adds another variable you have to control so keep it low.
But after the last pin I would do about 500 iu EOD, or 250 ED. The half life of HCG is 24-36 hours, so it needs to be pinned frequently. This is about how much is prescribed in HCG mono therapy for hypogonadism. So take around 1500-2000 iu per week spread out, until you start nolva or clomid. At this level, you will likely be producing like you were before cycle, maybe more since you used HCG to maintain during cycle. I guess if I am going to do it, I want as much recovery as possible. Word of warning is to watch estrogen during this phase.
Here is my logic that I am basing my advice on. Basically when you cycle you become hypogonadal in a primary sense (your balls), and in a secondary sense (your pituitary gland signaling function). HCG only helps with primary, and hinders secondary recovery, since it is an LH analog, and can actually cause some secondary shutdown. You don’t care that it hinders secondary recovery since you still have testosterone in your system, and can not start the secondary hypogonadism recovery until most of the test clears anyways. So you start your recovery on your balls first, and get them up and running, then the testosterone and HCG clear (since HCG clears really fast), and start your secondary recovery.
Man that was long winded. Did anyone understand that?
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Yes that makes a lot of since. So is it even worth running it on cycle if I don’t care about ball shrinkage? I’m more concerned with being able to recover quickly. Since I only plan on doing a cycle once a year.
I would run it on, but I would probably wait a couple weeks in to start it. Keep it low while on. I think 250 twice a week would work.
You could do 1000 iu first week after last pin, and 2000 iu the next.
That’s what I’ll do
Get some insulin pins. You can draw and inject hcg very easily. Even with 30 gauge, I can fill and inject in under a minute. You can do it subq. I don’t even feel the pin most of the time.
Seems like you know alot about hcg…I usually always run it on cycle… 50 units as needed when nuts shrink or hurt. About 2 weeks ago I ran out on a cycle tren .5 ml daily test prop 100 eod…winny 50 daily. Juice hit my nuts like Floyd Mayweather using them as a speed bag. I never ran out on cycle b4… I tried clomid but it didnt do shit… Pain was so bad I decided to just cut it all till hcg came. Last pin was Weds & just got my hcg. Should I do a few days of hcg b4 i re-start the cycle? If so is 50 units ed too much? Just took 50 a few hrs ago & pain tapering off finally