What Would of Happened if Malcom X had his Way

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
Am I just wrong, or did crazy leftists “steal” my buzzword to roll me up into their voting block?

[/quote]

The communists co-oped the phase, yes. So it is ruined.

Look, I come off as “right wing” and “conservative” but I’m really not. I’m significantly more Classically Liberal, but the Contemporary American Liberal isn’t really Classically Liberal, at least not consistently.

Labels make everything tough, and each side wants to trample the rights of anyone not like them in some way, shape or form. I don’t judge or hate anyone based on being a democrat, republican, libertarian or whatever. I will listen and be forgiving about a decent number of issue, provided one isn’t a collectivist. Socialist/communists/fascists etc can all pound sand as far as I’m concerned. People with those ideologies have done horrific things in the name of “progress” and don’t deserve the time of day, considering their political leanings don’t give the time of day to elementary human history or individual rights.

But I’m getting off track. Look at the “Gay” Movement (In quotes because I havent’ the faintest idea what the PC term is these days.) Here we have a movement, including same sex marriage, I’ve supported since I was a child. I’ve never in my life understood why people get so bent out of shape that other people are gay. And the entire movement, until recently, was just to be treated like a normal human, and not be shunned and have their lives destroyed because they liked to have sex with someone of the same sex.

Nobel cause. They don’t want everyone to be gay, they just don’t want their lives ruined or significantly more difficult because they like to go down on people with the same parts they have. But today, it isn’t like that. Today the Gay Mafia will do everything in its power to completely destroy your life if you dare, publically, not say what they want you to say.

From getting CEO’s fired to making a silly pizza shop boycott national news, if you don’t toe the line, you are destroyed. So in essence they have began doing to others what the fought to have stop happening to them.

That I can’t support. That has turned me indifferent to the struggle. It’s gone from “treat us equal” to “agree with us or we will try and destroy you like the people who started this movement were destroyed for their lifestyle.”

And that, in short, is my major problem with the American Political Left. They don’t seem to think very often, do math or care about basic economics. If it hits them in the feels, it is A-Okay… And that is a horrid way to politic.

42

That doesn’t sound crazy.

43

In Urban Theory, and Urban Planning and Community Development and all those sort of classes we were taught that “mixed” neighborhoods were good. Different incomes and ethnic groups living together is better than having town all divided up along class/racial lines.

So a strong neighborhood with good schools, save streets and citizens who spend money in thier own community is ideal. But a community that is “voluntarily” segregated just doesn’t seem right. But looking back, historically “good” neighborhoods are always ethnic neighborhoods.

Am I like a know-it-all college boy just messing up people’s town with my pie-in-the sky, unrealistic, book learned “ideals?”

44

[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
In Urban Theory, and Urban Planning and Community Development and all those sort of classes we were taught that “mixed” neighborhoods were good. [/quote]

What’s wrong with letting people choose where they want to live?

I mean, are we really to the point where the assumption is that people are too inept at running their own lives to the point they need to be told where to live, and forced to live there based on demographic percentages?

45

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I mean, are we really to the point where the assumption is that people are too inept at running their own lives
[/quote]
Yes, that was decided long before anyone posting was born.

46

Well, you wouldn’t force anybody to live anywhere.

But instead of 1 housing project on the edge of town, we would urge developers to build a handful of high occupancy housing units, more spread out through town. And closer to commercial development.

Rather than running sewer and water to another gated community way out of town, we’d love for somebody to fix up some downtown buildings. Let the run down areas filter up, instead of just sprawling out and annexing “new” areas into town.

People totally have the right to live where ever they want, but its hard to run the schools and the police/fire department, and keep the roads up when people just want to move to the “newer” side of town. In the Public Administration game, we believe a little cooperation and planning can prevent future issues. The goal is to give everyone more choices.

47

Total sidetrack, but I like the roundtable discussion much more than the “debate” style.

48

[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
But was he really more like a Reactionary, extreme right, trying to go “back” to a way things had been?[/quote]

So he was a reactionary, meaning he wanted to go back to slavery? I don’t quite understand. Reactionary how?

49

[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
Well, you wouldn’t force anybody to live anywhere.

But instead of 1 housing project on the edge of town, we would urge developers to build a handful of high occupancy housing units, more spread out through town. And closer to commercial development. [/quote]

They sort of have this in my town. They ripped down many of the “projects” and a ton of older homes. In their wake, they built single and multiple dwellings and the people who once lived in apartment-like projects now live in individual homes. Of course they’ll probably never ever pay off their loans but at least it makes the areas where they live look better and there’s actually less crime since they are keeping up their homes unlike in the other areas where the homes are boarded up and falling apart. So a one-time "slum’ area now looks like a new middle class neighborhood.

50

[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
Well, you wouldn’t force anybody to live anywhere.

But instead of 1 housing project on the edge of town, we would urge developers to build a handful of high occupancy housing units, more spread out through town. And closer to commercial development.

Rather than running sewer and water to another gated community way out of town, we’d love for somebody to fix up some downtown buildings. Let the run down areas filter up, instead of just sprawling out and annexing “new” areas into town.

People totally have the right to live where ever they want, but its hard to run the schools and the police/fire department, and keep the roads up when people just want to move to the “newer” side of town. In the Public Administration game, we believe a little cooperation and planning can prevent future issues. The goal is to give everyone more choices. [/quote]

I agree with the goal “give everyone more choices”, I just think that maybe your view of how that is obtained is a little bit unrealistic and ignores 1 big, glaring fact. Everyone in America has an endless number of choices, it is up to them to make those choices happen.

I went to college mostly on scholarships but I had to work my fingers to the bone to get those scholarships while the “poor, underprivileged” kids attended college of FAFSA grants. In a lot of ways, in America, those underprivileged kids have a better shot at success than us middle class people whose parents made too much to qualify for government grants but not enough to pay for our schooling.

This brings me to my actual opinion of programs that try to make everything “equal”. They really shit on the hard working middle class level of society (which is a majority of the population and is not ethnic specific) and favor the lowest socioeconomic groups of society which are almost exclusively black. Yet, if we don’t support these programs we are labeled racist… Oh, the irony.

51

Flatsfarmer: Sorry if I came off like I was trying to fight with you; I was not. I’m just frustrated with this trend in our country because I’m faced with it everyday with the career that I have.

52

Loft -No way man, You always talk honestly about how your opinions, and how you arrived at them. Thats the whole point of discussion.

-Khan, I meant on Reactionary on the “Politcal Spectrum.” It’s like a graph where Radical/Liberal/Moderate/Conservative/Reactionary go from left to right on a chart. I didn’t mean backwards to slavery, but backwards to less interaction/integration between blacks and whites. Nation of Islam was like, separtist back in the 60’s, right?

53

[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
Loft -No way man, You always talk honestly about how your opinions, and how you arrived at them. Thats the whole point of discussion.

-Khan, I meant on Reactionary on the “Politcal Spectrum.” It’s like a graph where Radical/Liberal/Moderate/Conservative/Reactionary go from left to right on a chart. I didn’t mean backwards to slavery, but backwards to less interaction/integration between blacks and whites. Nation of Islam was like, separtist back in the 60’s, right?
[/quote]

Yes, of course, that’s why I was confused. Reactionary, to me, means the opposite of a Revolutionary. A Reactionary does not want to change something, but return to a older better time.

54

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:

[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
Well, you wouldn’t force anybody to live anywhere.

But instead of 1 housing project on the edge of town, we would urge developers to build a handful of high occupancy housing units, more spread out through town. And closer to commercial development.

Rather than running sewer and water to another gated community way out of town, we’d love for somebody to fix up some downtown buildings. Let the run down areas filter up, instead of just sprawling out and annexing “new” areas into town.

People totally have the right to live where ever they want, but its hard to run the schools and the police/fire department, and keep the roads up when people just want to move to the “newer” side of town. In the Public Administration game, we believe a little cooperation and planning can prevent future issues. The goal is to give everyone more choices. [/quote]

I agree with the goal “give everyone more choices”, I just think that maybe your view of how that is obtained is a little bit unrealistic and ignores 1 big, glaring fact. Everyone in America has an endless number of choices, it is up to them to make those choices happen.

I went to college mostly on scholarships but I had to work my fingers to the bone to get those scholarships while the “poor, underprivileged” kids attended college of FAFSA grants. In a lot of ways, in America, those underprivileged kids have a better shot at success than us middle class people whose parents made too much to qualify for government grants but not enough to pay for our schooling.

This brings me to my actual opinion of programs that try to make everything “equal”. They really shit on the hard working middle class level of society (which is a majority of the population and is not ethnic specific) and favor the lowest socioeconomic groups of society which are almost exclusively black. Yet, if we don’t support these programs we are labeled racist… Oh, the irony.
[/quote]

What grants are you speaking of? The Pell Grant? It’s roughly 5500 a year. If you’re in the middle class that’s roughly $450 month for you. If your family is impoverished that grant is just some light at the end of the tunnel. I understand what you’re trying to articulate. However Middle class families are expected have a college fund for their children. If you don’t have any disposable income you’re either not in the middle class or very irresponsible with your money.

55

$50000 a year is the national average. Taking on a $450 a month bill for each of your 3 children is pretty much impossible for a family that brings in 50k a year.

The average middle class family does not have any disposable income. Welcome to the new normal.

56

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
I have yet to see a poor jewish family.

[/quote]

I can’t help this, but HAHAHAHAHA!

I am Jewish, and my grandparents on my mother’s side were born poor. And I mean DIRT POOR! My grandmother lived in a shtetl in Poland up til four years old. Use You Tube, and look at the Nazi propaganda film The Eternal Jew and look at the Jews in the film and how they’re dressed and how they lived in Jewish ghettos. That was reality. They were poor, and many were illiterate.

My maternal grandfather was born in a ghetto in Havana, Cuba, and was forced to work at age EIGHT and lived with his family of two parents and several siblings in one room and slept on a FLOOR for years. He had a grand total of about five years of education. Through sheer determination, he became what we now call, a “middle class millionaire” and would have been better off if it were not for some reckless decisions and gambling.

Even today, in the Chasidic communities, there are poor Jews on welfare, and others who are filthy rich. (Working in healthcare, as I do, exposes one to who is who and how they are living, for all races and ethnicities.)

Many Jews who arrived on Ellis Island, from Poland, Russia, or Ukraine, were dirt poor, uneducated, and illiterate. Many of them worked their asses off–yes, through both legal and illegal means–pooled their resources, and made better lives for their offspring.

Not every Jew is a media mogul, medical doctor, lawyer, or business owner.

57

At the time of Malcom X’s death he was transitioning from being a black nationalist to being a socialist internationalist. There is a fantastic book about this political transformation for those who would be interested in reading it. Just like MLK who was marching with striking communists and talking about the evils of capitalism and imperialism just before he was killed the true is same of Malcom.

Malcom was dropping his reflexive racial outlook in favour of one that was more focused on a cohesive class based ideology, kind of like that of the democratic socialists and the version of socialism floating around the countries engaged in anti colonialist Guerrilla campaigns such as those in Africa, Ireland and parts of South America. My opinion though is like the smart black panthers he would become a moderate constitutional free market advocate, just like bobby Seale.

Black people in those days were oppressed in a very real sense and this drove them to radical and often times reactive racist ideologies. as the society had opened up to black people the people who were black nationalists and were socialists are not becoming constitutionalists and pro NRA and pro free enterprise. Malcom X was a great man and judging him for being racist against whites at a time when blacks couldn’t sit in certain seats, use certain fountains and were systematically fucked over is like judging Nat Turner for killing the masters children.

You oppress a man so far and he will become the reincarnation of the beast. Allow him to join your society and he becomes an NRA member and wants to defend both his and your rights and freedoms.

58

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
I have yet to see a poor jewish family.

[/quote]

I can’t help this, but HAHAHAHAHA!

I am Jewish, and my grandparents on my mother’s side were born poor. And I mean DIRT POOR! My grandmother lived in a shtetl in Poland up til four years old. Use You Tube, and look at the Nazi propaganda film The Eternal Jew and look at the Jews in the film and how they’re dressed and how they lived in Jewish ghettos. That was reality. They were poor, and many were illiterate.

My maternal grandfather was born in a ghetto in Havana, Cuba, and was forced to work at age EIGHT and lived with his family of two parents and several siblings in one room and slept on a FLOOR for years. He had a grand total of about five years of education. Through sheer determination, he became what we now call, a “middle class millionaire” and would have been better off if it were not for some reckless decisions and gambling.

Even today, in the Chasidic communities, there are poor Jews on welfare, and others who are filthy rich. (Working in healthcare, as I do, exposes one to who is who and how they are living, for all races and ethnicities.)

Many Jews who arrived on Ellis Island, from Poland, Russia, or Ukraine, were dirt poor, uneducated, and illiterate. Many of them worked their asses off–yes, through both legal and illegal means–pooled their resources, and made better lives for their offspring.

Not every Jew is a media mogul, medical doctor, lawyer, or business owner. [/quote]

There are poor jews in my area. However you don’t see the abject poverty in their community as you do in other communities. I think this is in large part because of the community and family strength that is absent on many of minority communities. However globally jews are much less likely to be poor than the average. This is hardly an insult.

59

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
However Middle class families are expected have a college fund for their children. If you don’t have any disposable income you’re either not in the middle class or very irresponsible with your money. [/quote]

Ridiculous.

60

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

There are poor jews in my area. However you don’t see the abject poverty in their community as you do in other communities. I think this is in large part because of the community and family strength that is absent on many of minority communities. However globally jews are much less likely to be poor than the average. This is hardly an insult.
[/quote]

It’s not an insult and it’s the truth!

I don’t mean to be a wiseass here–seriously–but the word minority doesn’t compute my brain anymore being I live in the borough of Queens, NY, in which NO ONE is minority at this point. If we were to go by race–that is, using only the three main races, Asian, black, and white–then whites are the minority.

Queens is literally the most diverse place in the USA, and possibly on planet earth. This is not an exaggeration.

Northern Asians here are VERY successful and now are the majority in my old town just a mile or so from where I live now. They make up the majority of other towns in Queens too, and are making their way into Brooklyn. They have financial strength and family strength.

The reasons northern Asians succeed are the same reasons that Jews succeed:

high IQ on average
discipline
focus
STRONG desire for money
influence
energy
and racial and ethnic solidarity.

The last one counts A LOT. That is, Jews and northern Asians work as a team, instead of the ridiculous individualism of contemporary Americans. Jews went from pawn shop brokers and garment salesmen (you know, the “schmata business”) to pooling their resources for buying major newspapers and television and radio stations.

I work in the nursing home business and let me tell you, this business is booming these days, with Medicare reimbursing homes with 600 bucks per filled bed for short term rehab and 1000 bucks per day for HIV residents. Perhaps we middle class workers there are remaining middle class, but owners typically earn seven to eight figures, depending on how many homes they have invested for. Go look up on Nursing Home Compare the names of owners who own homes in the vicinity of one another and you will see a trend: the same names over and over again, and also of a certain ethnicity. This is team work, and team work, coupled with intelligence, energy, and vigilance, WINS!

The same goes for northern Asians. They have their own churches, stores, credit unions, local television stations (I don’t see them owning MTV or the NY Times soon), newspapers, and various business. Many work in healthcare and when there is an opening, they invite their friends and family members for the spot.

Same can be said for the Poles, one of the few white groups, who now made their way to Ridgewood, Queens. They have their own labor businesses, restaurants, credit unions, pharmacies, social clubs, and so on. When one of them comes here, they have a job lined up. If I remember correctly, in order to use one of their credit unions, one has to have some other involvement in a Polish American organization, sort of like proving their loyalty to their group.

One can see these examples are in direct opposition to the typical, contemporary American “f— everyone else,” “do as I please”, “every man for himself” attitudes.

And notice how these groups are not just shouting “_______ Power” or donning flags of their home countries or wearing shirts displaying their ethnicities or whining about past oppressions (all groups listed were treated harshly at some points). They are actually DOING stuff! I am going to the diamond district on 47th St. to visit my close Israeli friend who has an office their in a few hours and I will see the things I discuss in action. (Not to sound like a damn broken record, but Jews are in the diamond business through SERIOUS team work too.)