What Was Obama's First Official Act?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]valiance. wrote:
There’s simply no evidence that SAD has lied about anything.
[/quote]
The problem with making such a blanket statement is that it only takes one example to prove you wrong. In BHO’s book Dreams… he makes the claim that his mother remained in Hawaii with BHO senior until 1962 when she left to attend the University of Washington. You may find it interesting that actually she began classes at UW on August 19th, 1961, just two weeks after his birth. She remained there until 1963, after Obama Sr. had left for Harvard, when she returned to Hawaii, showing that not only was she back in Seattle before claimed, but that she also never lived with her supposed husband after BHO was born. While this lie can’t directly be attributed to her (BHO may have made it up for the book) it does show a lack of honesty by someone directly involved with the life of BHO immediately after his birth.

[quote]
You don’t want to believe BHO is POTUS so you’re embracing the slimmest of possibilities in order to maintain that fiction. You’re well within your rights to believe that, I have no evidence to convince you if you aren’t already convinced. But this is just a sideshow.[/quote]

If you don’t see the irony of this statement after reading through this thread then I don’t have much left to say.

Trust but verify. - Ronald Reagan

102

Trust, then vote without reading.

103

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Let us assume, just for the hell of it, that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii as he claims, and would therefore have conferred upon him at birth dual nationality in the UK (by virtue of his Kenyan father) and in the US (through his mother). The problem of Indonesia still looms large.

Let us also assume that Barry Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, and received Indonesian nationality. His school identity card (pictured above) would indicate that this assumption is a fair one (see line three above: “Warga negara: Indonesia”). An Indonesian passport would corroborate this.

The only way to obtain an Indonesian passport (as Obama has admitted in his book that he has) is to become an Indonesian national. Indonesia does not allow dual nationality, so in order to become an Indonesian national, young Barry would have had to drop his previous two nationalities.

Now, it’s harder to lose US nationality than you might imagine. Barry, who at age 6 was too young to have his citizenship stripped from him by serving in a foreign army, by being nationalized in a foreign state, or by holding a policy-level position in a foreign government, would have had to formally renounce his citizenship before a State Department official, most likely at the US Embassy in Jakarta.

A revocation of US nationality resulting from a formal renunciation is usually irreversible, but I suppose that any law can be circumvented if one’s pockets are deep enough.

If Barry’s nationality were somehow restored, it took a great deal of political wangling, and an even greater deal of money, to circumvent Federal law. Both certainly within the means of men like Zbigniew Brzezinski and George Soros.

One thing is sure: a thorough examination of ALL of Barry’s passport records would tell an amusing and enthralling story. A story however, that, thanks to his first executive order, we may not be able to enjoy for many years down the road.

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Lacking specific information on how the Indonesian government does things – I think this statement is true both for myself and for you – it seems unwarranted to assume that the Indonesian government would necessarily refuse an Indonesian father from having his adopted son naturalized as an Indonesian citizen on account of not having documentation of such renunciation in front of a US State Department official.

If nothing else, I believe it is the case that a parent cannot make that decision for the child in any case.

So if Indonesia had such a requirement, then that would mean that no adopted foreign child could get citizenship.

I would not assume that Obama’s Indonesian citizenship, if he had/has it, in fact required an actual renunciation. If he had gotten it as an adult it would have, but at 6 years old…

By the way, where in his book does he say he used or had an Indonesian passport? Is there an image of that page online, or a quotation reported by a news or other entity that would have a great deal of reputation to lose if fabricating it?

105

Actually, Bill, I lived in Indonesia for a while, and I did look into the various laws at the time, because I was interested in buying property there. Turns out you can’t buy land there without either being a national, or without buying it in the name of a national, who maintains majority interest.

Anyway, at the time (1991) the law didn’t recognize dual nationality. The law changed in November 2002, so that minor children (below the age of 18) may hold dual nationality, in response to the large number of foreigners who were marrying Indonesian girls, and wanting British or Australian or whatever nationalities for their children.

However, this would not have helped young Barry, so I must assume that large bribes were paid, either when he was six, to get his Indonesian citizenship, or else later on, to get his American citizenship back.

That said, I suppose I am inclined to agree with your assumption that the State Department didn’t require a six-year-old boy to formally renounce his US citizenship.

And upon re-checking Barry’s book, it turns out that all he admitted was that he traveled to Pakistan in 1981, when he was twenty. He could not have done this on a US passport, as private citizens were prohibited from traveling to Pakistan by the State Department at this time.

So it must have been either a British passport, an Indonesian one, or a Kenyan one. Indonesia being a Muslim country with good ties to Pakistan, this would seem to be the most logical choice. Once again, I can’t wait until all of his documents become public record. I won’t hold my breath, though.

106

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Actually, Bill, I lived in Indonesia for a while, and I did look into the various laws at the time, because I was interested in buying property there. Turns out you can’t buy land there without either being a national, or without buying it in the name of a national, who maintains majority interest.

Anyway, at the time (1991) the law didn’t recognize dual nationality. The law changed in November 2002, so that minor children (below the age of 18) may hold dual nationality, in response to the large number of foreigners who were marrying Indonesian girls, and wanting British or Australian or whatever nationalities for their children.

However, this would not have helped young Barry, so I must assume that large bribes were paid, either when he was six, to get his Indonesian citizenship, or else later on, to get his American citizenship back.

That said, I suppose I am inclined to agree with your assumption that the State Department didn’t require a six-year-old boy to formally renounce his US citizenship.
[/quote]

Actually, the US will not allow a minor to renounce his citizenship, nor will they allow a guardian to renounce a childs. Therefore, even if Obama did gain Indonesian citizenship, he never would have lost his US citizenship.

You would know more about Indonesian law than myself, but from the research I have done Lolo Soetoro would have been able to renounce Barry’s US citizenship for him so that he could gain Indonesian citizenship and not be a dual-citizen in the eyes of the Indonesian government, but again this would not have had any bearing on his US citizenship.

We still have big questions regarding whether or not Obama did hold Indonesian citizenship and if he used it to his advantage as an adult, whether or not his US citizenship is based in fraud, or where he was even born.

So, if he did have US citizenship before moving to Indonesia, then there is no question about his current US citizenship, but there are major questions about a president holding dual-citizenship.

107

[quote]tedro wrote:
Actually, the US will not allow a minor to renounce his citizenship, nor will they allow a guardian to renounce a childs. [/quote]

Actually, they will allow the former, but not the latter.

[i]F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.[/i]

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

Agreed on the other points.

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[quote]Varqanir wrote:
tedro wrote:
Actually, the US will not allow a minor to renounce his citizenship, nor will they allow a guardian to renounce a childs.

Actually, they will allow the former, but not the latter.

[i]F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.[/i]

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

Agreed on the other points. [/quote]

Oops, thanks for posting that. I knew that and I actually posted that same link in another thread, so it was a pretty dumb mistake to say that.

The question then would be can a six year old meet all of the requirements of full understanding.

You know what the sad thing about this is? We can talk and speculate all day about the myriad of possibilities that would make Obama ineligible, yet the entire story could be put to rest with just a little bit of the transparency that we were promised by Obama, or if the media simply held him to the same standard as every other presidential candidate. What gets me is that the American public does not see a problem with not having definitive answers to all of these questions that we have.

109

Hmmm someone should just apply for the hawaii passport center and check this out for themselves :slight_smile: