What Kind of Libertarian Are You?

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Nah. I’d vote Democrat before I’d ever vote for a libertarian. [/quote]

Cool, well you will have big government statists as your President for the rest of your life.

Obama’s and W’s, one after the other, after the other.
[/quote]

We’re all ‘statists’ now. When push comes to shove not even the Tea Party grassroots want their social security and medicare taken away. [/quote]

I do!!
[/quote]

Heh. Taken as a whole, of course.[/quote]

Give me a soap box and I’ll convince the whole lot of them

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Can any libertarian answer as to what replaces Social security and medicare? Anyone? No, they can’t.

John S. wrote:

Why can’t a private company do it? Listen here is the best part about social security, its going do die out…
[/quote]

Neither Medicare (unitl we have UHC) or SS is going to die out. The eligibility age will be raised to about 70. Taxes will be raised.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Can any libertarian answer as to what replaces Social security and medicare? Anyone? No, they can’t.
[/quote]

Why can’t a private company do it? Listen here is the best part about social security, its going do die out and everyone that has been on the dole is going to find themselves screwed.

Medicare is one of the main reasons health care is so expensive, get rid of that program.

Now you don’t get rid of these programs over night, but we should start idk a 20-30 year phasing out process.

Or hell, why can’t the state not the Federal government be in charge of social security if that is what the residents of a particular state want?

[/quote]
Bingo.

Sloth is so wrapped up, so brainwashed, so mired in the concept that ONLY the federal government can once again rescue us. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Same ol’ broken record.[/quote]

Some of you really aren’t thinking through my posts. I AM for a much smaller/decentralized welfare state. But the requisite socially conservative populace has become socially liberal. You will not be able to pull the tablecloth out from under the entitlement state in one swift motion. And, without supporting and shoring up a widespread return to traditional moral and cultural values. You will not be allowed. You will not be allowed because all those socially conservative things Dustin talked about, have eroded far too much. The people want their SS and Medicare. They want their WIC and financial aid. Soon, they’ll resign themselves to single-payer healthcare.

Eventually libertarianism, as a movement, will understand this. The libertarian movement will largely drop the mantra of ‘small government’ for ‘good government.’ They will argue for social and inter-market liberalization, while maintaining higher taxes and a robust entitlement state. The government is now the large, extended, church going family of yester-year. Period. Tocqueville nailed it. It isn’t collectivism that will solidify the existence of a large and wide-reaching tutelary state, but hyper-individualism (think, libertarian).

Since…no one is obliged to lend his force to those like him and no one has the right to expect great support from those like him, each is at once independent and weak. These two states–which must neither be viewed separately nor confused–give the citizen of democracies very contrary instincts. His independence fills him with confidence and pride among his equals, and his debility makes him feel, from time to time, the need of the outside help that he cannot expect from any of them, since they are all impotent and cold. In this extremity, he naturally turns his regard to the immense being [the tutelary, bureaucratic, centralized State] that rises alone in the midst of universal debasement. His needs and above all his desires constantly lead him back toward it, and in the end he views it as the unique and necessary support for his individual weakness.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Can any libertarian answer as to what replaces Social security and medicare? Anyone? No, they can’t.

John S. wrote:

Why can’t a private company do it? Listen here is the best part about social security, its going do die out…
[/quote]

Neither Medicare (unitl we have UHC) or SS is going to die out. The eligibility age will be raised to about 70. Taxes will be raised.

[/quote]
You think that’ll do it, huh? If so, naivete is your close companion. It’s a short term band aid at best.[/quote]

Of course. Eventually it’ll be indexed to rise with life expectancy. And, we’ll get a vat tax or something to bring in more revenue.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Can any libertarian answer as to what replaces Social security and medicare? Anyone? No, they can’t.
[/quote]

Why can’t a private company do it? Listen here is the best part about social security, its going do die out and everyone that has been on the dole is going to find themselves screwed.

Medicare is one of the main reasons health care is so expensive, get rid of that program.

Now you don’t get rid of these programs over night, but we should start idk a 20-30 year phasing out process.

Or hell, why can’t the state not the Federal government be in charge of social security if that is what the residents of a particular state want?

[/quote]
Bingo.

Sloth is so wrapped up, so brainwashed, so mired in the concept that ONLY the federal government can once again rescue us. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Same ol’ broken record.[/quote]

Some of you really aren’t thinking through my posts. I AM for a much smaller/decentralized welfare state. [/quote]

No. Stop right there. You contradict yourself when you say you’d gladly vote Democratic AND “I AM for a much smaller/decentralized welfare state.” Can’t have it both ways, friend. Square pegs don’t slide into round holes.[/quote]

No contradiction at all. I simply realize that if libertarianism was to take the lead of the GoP it would become a dead party.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

No. Stop right there. You contradict yourself when you say you’d gladly vote Democratic AND “I AM for a much smaller/decentralized welfare state.” [/quote]

I am still pressed for time, but I can’t pass this up - Sloth didn’t say he would “gladly vote Democratic” - he said if pressed with a choice between a libertarian and a Democrat, he’d likely choose a Democrat. That isn’t as much a ringing endorsement of a Democrat as it is a damnation of libertarians - one well-deserved, frankly.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
…You will not be able to pull the tablecloth out from under the entitlement state in one swift motion. [/quote]

Copy and paste the libertarian on this thread who suggested the swift motion of which you speak.[/quote]

No need. The libertarian position is widely known. Even when speaking of a ‘phasing out,’ the message is clear…We’re going to dismantle your, your child’s, your parents’ and grand parents’, social safety nets.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Can any libertarian answer as to what replaces Social security and medicare? Anyone? No, they can’t.

John S. wrote:

Why can’t a private company do it? Listen here is the best part about social security, its going do die out…
[/quote]

Neither Medicare (unitl we have UHC) or SS is going to die out. The eligibility age will be raised to about 70. Taxes will be raised.

[/quote]
You think that’ll do it, huh? If so, naivete is your close companion. It’s a short term band aid at best.[/quote]

Of course. Eventually it’ll be indexed to rise with life expectancy. And, we’ll get a vat tax or something to bring in more revenue.[/quote]

Ahh…a vat tax, huh? And you’re for “a much smaller/decentralized welfare state,” huh?

Sure thing. Bro.[/quote]

I’m not for a VAT tax…I’m predicting (and I think, with good reason) what is to come.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

No contradiction at all. I simply realize that if libertarianism was to take the lead of the GoP it would become a dead party. [/quote]

You are clearly contradictory. Your posts speak for themselves. You simply can’t endorse the Democratic Party and claim you are a small government guy. You cannot do it.[/quote]

Sure I can. If I think the possibility of a more socially conservative, decentralized/locally controlled–but mandated–entitlement plank, growing within the Democrat platform is more plausible…that it has a better chance of preventing the further expansion of, even shrinking, a huge centralized entitlement state than the unelectable, daydreaming, libertarian platform…yeah