What are Low and High E2 Symptoms?

Pharma TRT
41

facepalm the paper is just to show that even though they were taking an enormous amount of anastrozole their SHBG was not severely affected. It is also to show you that there is literature on the subject, that you were unaware of because you claimed there wasn’t any.

There is no paper describing healthy levels of E2 of men on testosterone because it hasn’t been studied, not much in the field of TRT is, they just figured out 10 years ago it doesn’t give you prostate cancer. So I am not sure why you keep touting that, YOU are the one claiming that aromatase inhibition is bad for men, so YOU are the one that needs to prove your claim, not me.

Breast cancer is not treated with testosterone alone, an aromatase inhibitor is also used.

I have went over this 100 times, it is sad that you don’t even understand this basic simple concept so you keep bringing it up, even though I have addressed it multiple times. They give men estrogen to shut down their HPTA. Large dose, short time period. It is not estrogen therapy, as you are implying.

This is not true, because most of the studies on TRT affecting prostate cancer and cardiovascular risk are done with low dosages, or creams or pellets and TT levels do not rise as much, and they do not increase Free T as much either, therefore there is not enough raw material for the aroma to create high levels of E2. So I am not sure what you are trying to extrapolate here, but it makes no sense.

What are you saying here? We have men and women on TRT, have seen exactly what happens. It doesn’t matter if your body makes E2 from exogenous testosterone, or from endogenous, it is all the same. Once the testosterone is cleaved form the ester your body cannot tell the difference. So again, you are making up stuff.

Yes I have been trying to explain to you over and over how important E2 is in protecting men and women from cardiovascular issues, bone resorption and brain function, what does this have to do with you sayin anastrozole is bad for you? This again highlights your confusion on the subject, you imply that if someone takes any amount of anastrozole their E2 will crash, and this is not the case.

You are confused again on the last point, I have posted literature agreeing with the fact that low estrogen in men is bad. This has nothing to do with, and does not strengthen your argument at all. You are arguing that aroma inhibition, regardless of E2 levels, is bad. When someone is hypogonadal they do not have E2 because they do not have enough raw material (testosterone) to make it. So they accumulate visceral fat and with it tons of aromatase enzymes. So when you introduce higher levels of T into the blood stream, those aromatase enzymes get to work and make a ton of E2. Labs before TRT tell you absolutely nothing, you start at 0 when you start injecting. So again, you are confused.

3 Likes
42

Dr Crisler IS a hyper excretor? Are you aware the man died?

It is making me laugh almost hysterically as you have no idea who you’re speaking to :joy:

43

Is that funny to you? Pretty sad, but no I did not know. I haven’t been posting on the forums in 3 or so years, but used to talk to him frequently.

He was a really smart guy and the first one to move to SC frequent injections, something you claim to have started rolls eyes

1 Like
44

Dr Keith Nichols who you are talking to right here was Dr Crisler’s doctor. Did you know that? Did you know that Keith made Dr Crisler change his stance on AI use? Do you know that Crisler put out a statement that he was completely wrong on the subject? Do you not realize that we are NOT talking about CRASHING E2 levels as you keep stating! We are staying that any amount of an AI is BAD, regardless of the dose. Blocking E2 at ANY amount is BAD. It isn’t done at ANY level.

1 Like
45

And you are 100% wrong about it. I don’t care if he was Crisler’s doctor or not what does that mean lol. Docs need another doc to write their script, they can’t write one for themselves silly.

There is nothing wrong with anastrozole at the correct dosage for someone that needs it, we have lots of guys that have taken it for a decade and feel great, what part of that do you not understand?

You keep trying to insult me, but you and Dr Nichols posts are full of rhetoric, you still have not shown me a single piece of literature that shows inhibiting aroma is bad.

Think about what you are saying, when a man works out and increases his free T he inhibits aroma, are you saying this is bad for him?

Seriously this may be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

46

@yeti308 - does testosterone and estrogen bind to the same receptor sites on a cell or is there a specific number of hormone specific receptor sites on each cell for each hormone to bind to?

2 Likes
47

It has nothing to do with feeling great. That’s the part you fail to understand. When they take an AI they wind up with more T so of course they feel better. But the AI destroys the cardiovascular system over time, and you are reducing the protective benefits that E2 provides on the first place. Yes, the guy feels great, but under the hood he is being destroyed.

48

You cannot tell the small difference in total T. We are talking about moving estradiol just 25 points, it doesn’t take much to do that.

On your second point, you couldn’t be more wrong. The study I posted actually showed HPTA function was much better for the group on pellets and AI.

Estrogen is SUPER suppressive, thats why they use it to chemically castrate men, as you stated, which you still do not understand. You really should do some reading on the effect of the negative feedback loop due to estradiol vs T.

You are all over the place man, you really should slow down and try to learn a thing or 2.

4 Likes
49

Also I would argue not using HCG has a far more detrimental effect on endothelial function than anastrozole even at the high dosages they use in the studies.

Without progesterone production, your arteries do get destroyed over time.

One important issue that is not well understood is how neural effects of oestrogen are affected by progestagens. Recent experimental evidence in rodent models shows that prolonged progesterone (P4) exposure often represses beneficial 17β-oestradiol (E2) function in the brain ([3]). The mechanism(s) by which P4 inhibits E2 action in the brain is unclear. Here, we investigate the possibility that P4 modulates E2 action by regulating expression of oestrogen receptors (ERs). We demonstrate that P4 treatment reduces the expression of both ERα and ERβ in cultured neurones in a concentration- and time-dependent manner. We also show that this decrease in ER expression leads to attenuation of E2 activity in the neurones.

Progesterone attenuates oestrogen neuroprotection via downregulation of oestrogen receptor expression in cultured neurones

50

They bind to their own receptors inside the cell and each person has different numbers and sensitivities

1 Like
51

Do you have a link for some in depth explanation on this ??

52

Boy oh boy :joy:

1 Like
53

@highpull

Can I get your take as a practicing physician on this statement about HCG being needed or we sre damaging our csrdio system’s please… should we be adding HCG into our protocals?

54

Yes. If, 1) you are actively trying to conceive or 2) you are concerned with testicular atrophy. Number one is functional, number two obviously cosmetic. That’s it. Other than for those two reasons, no. Men have very low hCG levels.