We Need Some Middle Ground

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Again with the circular logic. “There’s prostitution now, even though it’s illegal, so we might as well make it legal” That’s your plan?[/quote]

No, but things should only be illegal if there are truly GOOD reasons for making it illegal, otherwise the government should fuck off and leave us be. I’m suggesting your reasons are a farce, do you have any good reasons… there are some out there, though they may be arguable.

[quote]Yeah, I’m sure that’s all it is. Innocent kids just sitting around enjoying a harmless joint. Wake up Vroom.

[/quote]

Are you really this clueless. You think crimes are caused by people addicted to pot? We aren’t talking about legalizing all drugs… there are differences you know. I wonder, how many violent acts are committed by drunken people every year. However, even so, I don’t think we should make alcohol entirely illegal either.

[quote]Is there possibly any criminal or terrorist activity that might legitimately take precedence?

No. No, you are right, we only allow people to have non-addictive drugs like alcohol and tobacco and to live forever in comfort with government approved painkillers such as COX-2 inhibitors.

Yeah. Good plan![/quote]

What, no reply to this stuff? You don’t think perhaps doing something about illegal immigrants or properly equipping first responders or being more prepared for the next Katrina scale event would be better uses for money than tracking down prostitutes and people smoking pot?

The only reason there is crime related to pot is because people can’t grow it in the comfort and safety of their own homes. They have to buy it from illegal sources. Other drugs, which are strongly addictive, I would not advocate making legal.

Final clue… marriage troubles are not CAUSED by prostitution, prostitution is a symptom of an existing problem already.

There are GOOD reasons to make some things illegal. There are GOOD reasons to partially regulate some things, such as alcohol. I think a lot of things that are soaking up large amounts of time and money would be less of a drain on resources if they were partially and appropriately regulated.

This would push the criminal element out of those areas… allowing the government to earn taxes instead of spending taxes to combat it. The money differential would be profound!

[quote]vroom wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
Again with the circular logic. “There’s prostitution now, even though it’s illegal, so we might as well make it legal” That’s your plan?

No, but things should only be illegal if there are truly GOOD reasons for making it illegal, otherwise the government should fuck off and leave us be. I’m suggesting your reasons are a farce, do you have any good reasons… there are some out there, though they may be arguable. [/quote]

"The immediate problem with legalization is that it provides state sanction to the assertion that women are sex objects, while concurrently failing to eradicate illegal prostitution. Women working in legal brothels in the U.S., Europe and Asia are forced to turn over forty to fifty percent of their profits and may be required to remain in the brothel for up to ninety percent of their time, in a given seven-day work week.

In addition, women may have to justify the refusal of a customer, and in some cases may not be able to refuse at all.18 Concurrently, women are often documented as prostitutes, an act that can result in future job loss and “blacklisting”, forced medical tests from hostile clinical staff, and harassment by police officers.19

The costs of legalized prostitution such as rent to the brothel owner, medical examinations, and any registration fees are paid by the women involved in prostitution, thereby increasing the number of sexual encounters they must have in order to make a profit. Due in part to these costs, illegal prostitution has flourished in legalized areas as clients seek cheaper sex, and women determined to increase their income, or avoid psychological/drug tests, circumvent the legal system. In Germany, for example, there are three times as many non-registered women involved in prostitution as registered women. In Greece the ratio is more than 10 to 1.20

Prostitution that did not place women in danger would require private medical coverage, unions to demand fair profit sharing, and some form of prostitute controlled security system to ensure complete discretion over customer selection. The cost of all three would have to be passed on to the taxpayer to remove the incentives for illegal prostitution. Even then, the demand for illegal prostitutes in the form of minors or kidnapped foreigners would continue to be strong, as male ‘buyers’ often have a desire for the ‘exotic’.

In short, the best imagined version of legalized prostitution has all of the current problems of international trafficking in addition to increased taxes, which most citizens would refuse to pay. Perhaps most damaging is the fact that doing so would provide state legal sanction and financial support to the objectification of women."

http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/prostitution.html

[quote]

Yeah, I’m sure that’s all it is. Innocent kids just sitting around enjoying a harmless joint. Wake up Vroom.

Are you really this clueless. You think crimes are caused by people addicted to pot? We aren’t talking about legalizing all drugs… there are differences you know. I wonder, how many violent acts are committed by drunken people every year. However, even so, I don’t think we should make alcohol entirely illegal either.[/quote]

Can you actually read? Did you read the Libertarian platform which started this thread? It advocates a total end to all drug prohibition, so we are talking about legalizing all drugs… [quote]

Is there possibly any criminal or terrorist activity that might legitimately take precedence?

No. No, you are right, we only allow people to have non-addictive drugs like alcohol and tobacco and to live forever in comfort with government approved painkillers such as COX-2 inhibitors.

Yeah. Good plan!

What, no reply to this stuff? You don’t think perhaps doing something about illegal immigrants or properly equipping first responders or being more prepared for the next Katrina scale event would be better uses for money than tracking down prostitutes and people smoking pot?

The only reason there is crime related to pot is because people can’t grow it in the comfort and safety of their own homes. They have to buy it from illegal sources. Other drugs, which are strongly addictive, I would not advocate making legal.

Final clue… marriage troubles are not CAUSED by prostitution, prostitution is a symptom of an existing problem already.

There are GOOD reasons to make some things illegal. There are GOOD reasons to partially regulate some things, such as alcohol. I think a lot of things that are soaking up large amounts of time and money would be less of a drain on resources if they were partially and appropriately regulated.

This would push the criminal element out of those areas… allowing the government to earn taxes instead of spending taxes to combat it. The money differential would be profound![/quote]

.

Doesn’t the Libertarian platoform basically do away with the whole concept of prescription drugs?

You don’t need a doctor anymore, you can just go to the drugstore and get whatever you want. It may work for ultra responsible people, but most people will fuck it up royally.

I have always found the Libertarian ideals interesting and attractive, but when you really think them through some of them would only work in fantasy land. Recipe for disaster in the real world where the average IQ is 100.

Reddog,

Platforms are easy to adjust. You can have moderate libertarian viewpoints just as you can have moderate liberals or moderate conservatives.

Anyway, thanks for posting something reasonable on the prostitution issue. I’m not in agreement with all aspects of the article, as it sets up a specific method of dealing with the issue and then pretends the same problems don’t already exist today anyway.

It also suggests that illegal activities, which should remain illegal if prostitution were legalized, would still remain as they do today. This has nothing to do with the argument at hand, as it is unchanging.

However, personally, I don’t think it is worth trying to institutionalize prostitution as your article would recommend. I’d suggest that hookers and John’s just simply not be subject to arrest for their actions.

Relatively harmless drugs, such as alcohol, tobacco and pot could be regulated in similar ways. Potency could be regulated, hours of sale could be regulated, sale to minors could be regulated, public intoxication and driving under the influence could be regulated. Nobody has a problem with these regulations, except for extreme anti-government people.

Anyway, I don’t think an extremist libertarian agenda would be considered middle ground.

Again, thanks for a real post…

Legalizing drugs would be bad. Very.

Trusting folks to handle their own medication and doing away with the prescription power of doctors also a very bad thing. We as a nation are not ready for that kind of responsibility, trust me. Our doctors barely know what they are doing with drug interactions, so to trust that to someone without medical training to not fuck themselves up royally is the height of folly. Maybe if this was a hundred years ago when our medicines weren’t as powerful as they are today, this could have worked… but today – forget it.

This one issue is about as radical as one can get. Already the libertarians are losing ground… with me anyway.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
graphicsMan wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
Legalize drugs & prostitution. Open immigration. This is middle ground?

My (fairly libertarian) view is that legalizing drugs in situations where the user can’t hurt someone else (such as driving while intoxicated), should be fine. Why not let the government collect taxes on the substances that are already being prolifically sold?

One word: addiction.

Prostitution, if legal, could be regulated, and therefore safer for the prostitutes and for those that visit them. And again, the government could then collect taxes on the acts.

Assuming no societal costs. Such as broken marriages, etc. And I always thought Libertarians were for smaller gov’t, now you want it involved in drug trade & prostitution?

The immigration issue is a tougher one.

To say the least.
[/quote]

Addiction already exists. The divorce rate stands at 50%. Legalization won’t change this. People who are inclined to do drugs and frequent prostitutes will continue to do so. Those who are not, won’t. Filling our jails and clogging our court systems with this stuff is wasteful as well as pointless and stupid. It is really smoke and mirrors to make folks like you think the government is doing something about the problem. And to give the DEA something to do.