You can add colleges to that as well.
Yeah. One of my nieces was at Va. Tech for the first shooting down there, and two (same as first plus one more) for the second shooting.
The campus above was originally intended to be a community college, but through some actions I’m not familiar with became the townships high school.
It seems that when people are able to disperse more easily that they may stand a better chance than being corralled down a few main hallways.
What do you base this on? media accounts? personal experience? “95% of all Americans” could not agree on anything, but, I assuming you are basing your comments on “the right and left coast” There is more to the US than DC, New York, and LA.
_The NRA & politicians are getting rich off your dead loved ones.
Who is getting rich? All politicians either in Britain or USA are basically corrupt or they would not be politicians. A NRA lobbyist is no different from DynCorp, General Dynamics, PAE, Boeing or any other corporation sucking the tit of the USG.
actually think 95% of Americans would go along with a gun ban & they’d hand their guns in for destruction if laws were passed.. What do you base this statement on?
No. Just no. If I wanted to live under a totalitarian government, I would just move to Britain or Australia.
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I respect you opinions and I appreciate your knowledge of the ME, so I am not being disrespectful, but, your statement is based on what? _“Fetish supposedly symbolizing freedom” . So, the right to own a gun doesn’t symbolize freedom? Its a fetish? Then what does symbolize freedom? voting? “free press” An unarmed population and an armed government?
I do reload my own ammunition, its cheaper that way when you do a lot of shooting. I have never fantasized about buying a scope or gun. I have worked hard, saved money, and bought high qualify equipment. Your statement comes off as condescending. You and your friends don’t talk about weapons, ok, that’s your right, doesn’t make you any better than Americans talking about weapons, sports , women, or how many olive trees in Spain.
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For example, the fact that your Credit Score is much more liberty infringing that politician/liberal platitudes about gun control.
If the ever encroaching government in the near dystopian future slowly starts introducing a Chinese-style social credit system where free speech will be severely curtailed and your real life and virtual interactions scored and policed with draconian sanctions resulting in lack of access to goods and services… well, waving your AR-15 around won’t help you much against a tyrannical government.
That’s illustrative about the general gun culture or lack of thereof. Which in turn means that when a disaffected teenager with severe mental health issues is “angry at the world” and wants to fuck someone or something up the escalation of his thought process doesn’t include buying a gun a killing a lot of people.
I’m a lowly civilian, you’re military and you know more than me how in times of distress one falls back to hardwired and socially acquired mental pathways.
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That’s a myth perpetuated by the NRA.
Owning & carrying a gun doesn’t protect you, quite the opposite.
The statistics show that if you own a gun, you are much more likely to die early - and it’s usually from blowing your own brains out haha! Either that or a family member or kills you.
The NRA & big business are using that good old favourite - fear - to manipulate you.
You’re being led by the nose by rich men who want to get richer.
I base this on believing 95% of Americans aren’t crazy & can already see the existing gun laws are insane.
What do you think is going to happen if guns are severely restricted, The Purge??! Haha 
Totalitarian state?
You’re being manipulated by fear, spun by the NRA & big business. Your thoughts are not your own, but what you’ve been told. Does that sound free to you?
The cost of you having what you want (guns) is 33,000 lives killed in America per year.
After Sandyhook, once the government said shooting children was an acceptable price to pay for gun ownership, all bets were off.
Idaho, are the above costs worth you keeping what you want?
This reply isn’t even for you, some people can’t be reached, it’s for the sensible majority who can see common sense.
Best ever commentary on American gun ownership. And absolutely hilarious as well.
There’s no way I can top this, so I’ll leave this topic here
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So you are basing this on nothing but your opinion.
Actually my thoughts are my own, based on 20 years of LE and military work. What are yours based on?
Really ? What I want is the most fundamental right known to man. The right to defense of self and family. The right to protect what am responsible for. You don’t have that right in blissful Britain or awesome Australia.
[quote=“mrmeeseeks, post:1130, topic:234562”]
Totalitarian state?
IMO, any Nation / State that disarms the population and arms the government is totalitarian.
What government said this? The USG? what USG official said that? source?
I have killed for my country more than once, will continue to do so. And yes, I will continue to support my right to defend myself.
And I suppose you are the "sensible majority’ who can see common sense. Well, its certainly not your problem, since Britain long ago took away your rights.
Enough of this crap. Debating gun laws/ gun control is as bad as religion and abortion.
You do what you think is right and I will do the same.
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I never “wave” a weapon around. period. I don’t for one minute think ANY politician gives rat fuck about anything but themselves. Tyrannical governments succeed because the “people” let them. When only the government is armed, then the “people” will be shut down. The recent demonstrations in Iran is a perfect example.
Enough. As I told the other poster, debating gun control./ gun laws is as futile as debating religion and abortion.
On another note: It was good seeing you on the tactical life thread. Stop in more often.
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First and foremost, I have nothing but respect for you man. Sorry if I’m beating the proverbial dead horse but I believe constructive discussion with those holding opposite views is the key for understanding and refining one’ stances about a wide a range of issues.
While I understand your principled stance and the reasoning behind it, I believe that the situation is simply not black and white and that it’s not a question of guns or no guns.
I was speaking figuratively about the waving part. But the fact is, your (not necessarily yours personally) liberties have been under assault from a formidable array of opponents - government mandated surveillance, a rapidly expanding federal government, increased rules and regulations, stifling of free speech on campuses and the outrage culture and the list goes on and on… Outside of the gun debate, in how many instances do you believe that the fact that a large percentage of the population owns guns played a part in thwarting some or parts of these initiatives?
I didn’t see that US politicians and lawmakers live in constant fear from a “well regulated citizen militia” that will rise up if they resort to tyranny. “Oh, we can’t do that otherwise people will grab their AR-15s and march onto Washington DC”. If the armed population is not a safeguard against tyranny, but an end to itself then what’s the point?
The fact is, regulation of gun ownership is a matter of a society-wide consensus. And consensuses are a hassle, especially if you were hassle-free beforehand. Taking your belt and shoes off at the airport, seatbelts, smoking bans, fire code and workplace safety inspections - all these things are, well, a hassle. But society was decided (or acquiesced) that in the grand scheme of things these hassles are worth it, because it’s a price you pay for living in a complex society.
I don’t see (maybe I’m mistaken) people ranting about the tyranny of the government when it comes to workplace safety inspections.
Which brings me the second point and that’s the toxic aspect of the gun culture. The gun industry is a purely commercial activity whose bottom line depends on selling more guns to existing gun owners. New model, new clip size and so on. So naturally they perceive any regulation as a direct attack on their business model shouting second amendment and so on, because a small fraction of those guns would be sold if gun ownership was a chore.
Let me expand on that last sentence - I’m pro gun but I believe that gun ownership, whether a hunting rifle or a firearm for self-defense should be a pain in the ass. Lots of paperwork, psychological evaluations and so on… so that it stops being fun and weeds out the people who aren’t really committed to owning one and who don’t understand the accompanying social responsibility, either for personal self-defense, hunting or heck, even for keeping your tyrannical government at bay. Because otherwise guns are just here so that they don’t take away your guns?
Stockpiling rifles wouldn’t be fun if you had to spend three days dealing with the bureaucratic apparatus after each purchase. The Second amendment? Remember that when you step outside for a cigarette - it’s a matter of personal convenience and the social consensus.
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I grew up in a gang-infested neighborhood on Houston’s northwest side, and saw my first murder victim sprawled out on the curb at 8 years old on my street. My beliefs stem from life experiences, not NRA propaganda.
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Oh man, suicide is so funny, right? It takes a real looser to laugh about suicide.
The vast majority gun deaths in the US are suicide. While tragic (at least to some of us), the US has an average suicide rate. The vast majority of remaining gun deaths are in the drug trade. Most other first world countries don’t have a vast Mexican boarder to deal with. Of the small amount of gun deaths remaining the vast majority are large liberal cities. Excluding the 4 worst liberal cities, the rest of the US has a low violent crime (even compared to Europe) and murder rate. Meaning the parts of the country with the “insane” laws are the ones who are doing well.
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Suicide, so hilarious…
Maybe stick to British politics. Y’all got your own problems.
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I lived in an inner city and there were times when I wished I was carrying a gun, one time I would even say I needed one but got lucky, but the gun laws in that state (NJ) are ridiculously strict.
With that said, we know why those communities suffer from gun violence and violence in general but don’t care enough to actually take effective action. These mass shootings are something different. People can act as apologists and try to make them appear statistically “insignificant” but the fact we even have terms like mass shooter, mass shootings or school shootings says they happen regularly enough to be a thing.
Hasn’t it been shown states with tighter gun regs have fewer gun deaths per capita?
Edit: brief google
Same here. I have learned a lot from you, especially since I have so much time in the ME
I agree and owning guns does nothing to prevent any of these examples. What’s ironic is that my work requires me to use most of the things above to “collect information”. I have access to data bases that sometimes makes me question what I am doing. I do it to “prevent another terrorist attack” but, I am really trying to do something good, but, its a slippery slope even for me. The scary part, especially when it comes to “private personal information” there is none. It comes back to who watches the watchers? At what price are we willing to go? Because eventually, even North Korea is going to look normal.
I am in an isolated bubble. Most everyone is like me in some way, so opinions don’t vary. Dangerous. So, my news from the"outside world" comes from the web. I follow CNN, CBS, NBC, FOX, MSNBC, BBC, USA TODAY, SKY NEWS, AlJ, and the France 24 Hour English news. And, I don’t really believe any of them because they appear to me to push their own theme. I find this, especially in the US, as an assault against free speech. It really worries me that colleges seem so radically liberal to me, that any views that even remotely seem conservative are squashed.
The point to me is the US Constitution, something I try to live by, a moral standard to me. There are 100 million legal gun owners in the US, other than a few fringe groups shouting racial and government hate, I don’t see gun owners wanting to overthrow the USG.
Those measures are in place because of radical Muslin terrorism. Without the constant threat of dying, you could actually get on a flight without stripping naked.
Agree, but they are a business, either buy their products or you don’t. I don’t buy liquor because I don’t drink, if someone is opposed to guns, then don’t buy them. They sell a product, just like Marlboro sells cigarettes. Both will kill you.
It may surprise you, but, I agree, it also may also surprise you, but, I am no longer a member of the NRA. I am a loner and don’t really believe in any political organization. I belong to one organization ( I am not counting Wounded Warrior and various SF groups) and that is the National Tactical Officers Association (NTOA) because I occasionally teach for them.
Several years back, the NRA became too political for me and I didn’t like the way leadership was going. Limited thinking from NRA leadership has got us in this mess today, instead realizing that tactics needed to change to prevent the constant liberal assaults on our rights.
Look as someone who has carried a gun since age 10, went in the military at 17 and used one to fight for country and home, I know what it takes to be a responsible gun carrier. There is nothing wrong with having a through background check, I think there should be an age limit on when you can acquire certain weapons. I believe in thorough training, this is no brag, but, I probably have 10,000 hours of training just on weapons systems alone. Asking someone to undergo 40 hours of training is nothing. You want a CCW, then train for it. Police officers (on average) go through about 800 hours of basic training, asking someone to go through 24 to 40 hours of basic fundamentals is not much to ask to keep your right to bare arms.
The NRA could have pushed this, could have been in the forefront of acquiring a better media image, could have been seen as a leader, instead you get people like the British poster who thinks I have been brainwashed by the NRA.
I actually took leave to voice my opinion to the NRA executive council. I was told it was a slippery slope and what did I know anyway? you are just a member. Well, I know about training, I know about weeding out people who cannot either qualify or simply lack the mental capacity to make good decisions.
If you cut me, I will bleed red, white, and blue. I will defend the constitution with my life. I will hunt down and kill any terrorist I can find, but, my country is coming apart at the seams. This gun issue is just a macrocosm of our problems.
I don’t even know what our social consensus is anymore.
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I said I can’t top Jim Jefferies’ common sense about guns.
This speech from Emma Gonzalez, from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, does top that.
#wecallBS
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If you’re interested in the transcript of what she said
here you go:
#wecallBS
Emma Gonzalez, a senior at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, addressed a gun control rally:
“If the President wants to come up to me and tell me to my face that it was a terrible tragedy and how it should never have happened and maintain telling us how nothing is going to be done about it, I’m going to happily ask him how much money he received from the National Rifle Association.
You want to know something? It doesn’t matter, because I already know. Thirty million dollars.
And divided by the number of gunshot victims in the United States in the one and one-half months in 2018 alone, that comes out to being $5,800.
Is that how much these people are worth to you, Trump?”
#wecallBS