Very convenient cop out completely bypassing recent history.
No Comment whatsoever on the 20 year total Soviet/American Failure there.
[/quote]
The Soviet Union went bankrupt. And no, the Afghan War had little to do with why they went bankrupt. But it was the main reason they left. They didn’t actually lose the war either. They left the country in the hands of a puppet regime that remained in power until after the fall of the Soviet Union.
Firstly, it’s not a cop out. It’s a legitimate question. How can we allow al Qaeda a safe haven there? And here’s an idea: don’t actually tell the enemy that we’re leaving and when. Another idea: stop training the fuckers to kill us, bomb the Pashtun strongholds into oblivion and make it clear to the Saudis/Qataris/Pakistanis that we’ll do the same to them if they don’t immediately stop training and arming them.
‘In War: Resolution. In Defeat: Defiance.’ - Winston Churchill
“Firstly, it’s not a cop out. It’s a legitimate question. How can we allow al Qaeda a safe haven there? And here’s an idea: don’t actually tell the enemy that we’re leaving and when. Another idea: stop training the fuckers to kill us, bomb the Pashtun strongholds into oblivion and make it clear to the Saudis/Qataris/Pakistanis that we’ll do the same to them if they don’t immediately stop training and arming them.”
You make it sound like these people are gonna invade our shores like friggin Normandy or something, which
they never will in our lifetime, we can’t stay there forever.
YOUR way is, ‘Stay In Afghanistan Forever’, is that what your saying??
I say if you can’t get your shit together after 10 years, It’s time to pack up
and GTFO.
Make sense?
Troops positioned in Afghanistan are not allowed to engage the enemy (Taliban) unless they are attacked first, it’s a little retarded hanging around someone’s back yard waiting for them to come at you.
I now see that most do not see the rape being Gods will and that people become distraught over killing their fellow man would be fodder for their political opponents . Give some one the chance to misunderstand a point that would benefit their agenda, no matter how absurd, and they will do it
Throughout history, nations that have chosen to fight battles far from home for extended periods of time have suffered the consequences. Service Members comitting suicide is one consequence. Huge deficits at home are another. The US was spending 300 million a day for a number of years, that’s almost a million dollars per day for each person in the country [more than twenty years of annual salary for the median earner, each and every day!] The last I saw there were over 5500 service member deaths since 2001 in the war. Wives, Husbands, Brothers, Sisters, Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, …God Bless. War creates many problems far from the battlefield, the effects are felt throughout a society for decades after the fighting ends.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Throughout history, nations that have chosen to fight battles far from home for extended periods of time have suffered the consequences. Service Members comitting suicide is one consequence. Huge deficits at home are another. The US was spending 300 million a day for a number of years, that’s almost a million dollars per day for each person in the country [more than twenty years of annual salary for the median earner, each and every day!] The last I saw there were over 5500 service member deaths since 2001 in the war. Wives, Husbands, Brothers, Sisters, Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, …God Bless. War creates many problems far from the battlefield, the effects are felt throughout a society for decades after the fighting ends. [/quote]
A miniscule of a problem compared to the bigger issue at hand I already stated.
[/quote]
To suggest that the most powerful nation on earth with a population of over 300 million and a defence expenditure equaling every other nation combined and numerous allies can’t defeat a rabble of stone age tribesmen is beyond ridiculous.[/quote]
Have you been over there? If not then I highly suggest you shut the fuck up.
Have you been over there? If not then I highly suggest you shut the fuck up.[/quote]
Couple of things fella. I didn’t raise the subject. The thread was about Ted Turner saying US troops committing suicide is terrific/good. I find that highly objectionable. How about you?
One of the posters who responded said that we need to pull out of Afghanistan. Should he shut the fuck up too or is it okay for him to express his opinion because(presumably) it accords with yours?
I’d be interested in your opinion on the subject if you are able to give it without the insults and if you’re willing to hear mine and discuss it in an amicable way. And thank you for your service.
[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:
Troops positioned in Afghanistan are not allowed to engage the enemy (Taliban) unless they are attacked first, it’s a little retarded hanging around someone’s back yard waiting for them to come at you.
[/quote]
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
The US was spending 300 million a day for a number of years, that’s almost a million dollars per day for each person in the country [more than twenty years of annual salary for the median earner, each and every day!] [/quote]
Don’t want to get involved in the rest of the thread, buuuut, 300 million a day, with a population of 300 million, is not a million dollars per day for each person, it’s one dollar per day for each person.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
The US was spending 300 million a day for a number of years, that’s almost a million dollars per day for each person in the country [more than twenty years of annual salary for the median earner, each and every day!] [/quote]
Don’t want to get involved in the rest of the thread, buuuut, 300 million a day, with a population of 300 million, is not a million dollars per day for each person, it’s one dollar per day for each person.[/quote]
Afghanistan is a mess…It’s our new Vietnam, 10 friggin’ years, and ‘Sexmachine’ thinks
it’s a good thing to stay there so the Daily U.S. Suicides can continue, we lose one every 18 hours by their own hand!! Men with Families…you’re worse than Ted Turner,
he wants us to LEAVE…you want us to STAY.
[quote]Karado wrote:
Afghanistan is a mess…It’s our new Vietnam, 10 friggin’ years, and ‘Sexmachine’ thinks
it’s a good thing to stay there so the Daily U.S. Suicides can continue, we lose one every 18 hours by their own hand!! Men with Families…you’re worse than Ted Turner,
he wants us to LEAVE…you want us to STAY.[/quote]
Clearly the lessons of Vietnam are lost on you. I won’t bother to explain them to you. And if a withdrawal from Afghanistan is strategically necessary then it should be a Patton-style withdrawal - i.e., ‘advancing in another direction.’ You can’t just leave a theatre like that without enormous consequences.
[quote]Karado wrote:
Afghanistan is a mess…It’s our new Vietnam, 10 friggin’ years, and ‘Sexmachine’ thinks
it’s a good thing to stay there so the Daily U.S. Suicides can continue, we lose one every 18 hours by their own hand!! Men with Families…you’re worse than Ted Turner,
he wants us to LEAVE…you want us to STAY.[/quote]
Clearly the lessons of Vietnam are lost on you. I won’t bother to explain them to you. And if a withdrawal from Afghanistan is strategically necessary then it should be a Patton-style withdrawal - i.e., ‘advancing in another direction.’ You can’t just leave a theatre like that without enormous consequences.[/quote]
You can stay there either with out enormous consequences
Yeah, I’m well aware of what happened when we left, lesson was they were not a threat to begin
with, and we shouldn’t have stuck our nose in their business in the first place.
“I won’t bother to explain them to you.”
Thank God.
“And if a withdrawal from Afghanistan is strategically necessary then it should be a Patton-style withdrawal - i.e., 'advancing in another direction”.
You REALLY need to get that ‘Old School’ 20th Century War mindset outta your head at once,
we’re not fighting the Nazi’s here, this is a WHOLE new Ball O’ Wax Grampa, and “advance” where??
To TIBET??
“You can’t just leave a theatre like that without enormous consequences.”
Again, what “consequences”??? Clear your head for a moment, look in the Mirror and
repeat 100 times, “They will never storm our shores like Normandy…They will never storm our shores
like Normandy…”
[quote]Karado wrote:
…lesson was they were not a threat to begin
with, and we shouldn’t have stuck our nose in their business in the first place.
[/quote]
What you mean when we armed them during WWII? Vietnam was part of proxy war the Soviet Union was waging against us the world over. If you believe the Soviet Union wasn’t a threat to us then you’re an idiot. And if Vietnam/Soviet Union had not had to expend those resources in that theatre they would’ve been free to expend them in another.
How about Pakistan.
Er…like another 9/11? Like attacks on U.S. embassies, civilians and aid workers overseas, attacks on shipping lanes etc. WTF?
[quote]Karado wrote:
Thirdly, the Afghans ARE beating us, otherwise with all the defence expediture we should have beaten
them in 5 years, but in spite of our defence expenditure, we haven’t beaten them in over 10.
So with all our expenditure we haven’t beaten these “stone age tribesmen” in over a decade,
“tribesmen” that Do not have what have, “tribesmen” who are giving us trouble for 10 years Fighting Us with NO Jets, NO Helicopters, NO Tanks, NO night vision equipment, NO Armored Humvees, NO radar, NO protective Uniforms, etc. etc.
So much for expenditure.
[/quote]
U.S. Politicians and Karzai have set the rules of engagement against us. Sort of the same thing which happened in Vietnam, with Pakistan being Laos and Cambodia. Politicians are running the war with rules only one side adhere to. Plus the fact that it’s the Afghan’s land and they know it and can blend in hense the rash of “insider” attacks. If the Afghans are so tough and unbeatable, why did their country fall when it was originally invaded in a matter of weeks? And what has transpired in the meantime to change the situation there? Can you say the Iraq war? Pakistan not being a relyable ally? I like Pat’s take on the war which he described several years ago. Get the hell out of Afghanistan, and if they set up terrorist training bases or attempt to attack us again, rain down holy hell, then get out again. Do not attempt to nation build, do not attempt to hold ground.
“I like Pat’s take on the war which he described several years ago. Get the hell out of Afghanistan, and if they set up terrorist training bases or attempt to attack us again, rain down holy hell, then get out again. Do not attempt to nation build, do not attempt to hold ground.”
That’s interesting because one of the central premises of the book you recommended(In the Graveyard of Empires) is that the U.S. failure is a result of a failure to engage properly in nation building. The author criticises Rumsfeld’s remark that ‘we don’t do nation building’ and outlines a longterm occupation strategy whereby democracy can be fostered. He cites Japan and Germany as examples. Part of the reason why I don’t like the book.
Have you been over there? If not then I highly suggest you shut the fuck up.[/quote]
Couple of things fella. I didn’t raise the subject. The thread was about Ted Turner saying US troops committing suicide is terrific/good. I find that highly objectionable. How about you?
One of the posters who responded said that we need to pull out of Afghanistan. Should he shut the fuck up too or is it okay for him to express his opinion because(presumably) it accords with yours?
I’d be interested in your opinion on the subject if you are able to give it without the insults and if you’re willing to hear mine and discuss it in an amicable way. And thank you for your service.[/quote]
I think i can help provide some clarity here. I think the reason he told you to shut the fuck up is because the people who always demand more fighting and bloodshed are the ones who will never fight for anything except a good parking spot in front of walmart. I understand the disconnect present in our society war fighting does not personnaly affect most. So saying things like “lets keep fighting” or “invade pakistan” is not a big deal but when its personal to you and you have to deal with that shit your tune might sound quite different. As far as these “tribesman” I can tell you they are VERY good at what they do 10 years of constant fighting they have learned our tactics and adjusted as needed. They grew up with this war their small children know more about direct fire ambushes than any American civillian could ever hope to learn. However, I do beleive we could win but what it would take would be a very ugly stain in the history books.
