[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
iran is emboldened by our involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq.
How do you know this? Is this what you have been told to believe? Who are the credible sources saying this? Is this what you think? What would be the solutions to unembolden them?[/quote]
Don’t fret Effr0, pretty soon Bush’s masterplan will kick in and democracy will spread through the middle-east like wild fire. It’s only a matter of weeks or months.
If you want to hear a FIRSTHAND account of how the military viewed the civilian neo-cons, listen to this interview with Ret. Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski. She worked in the neo-con wing of the Pentagon during the run-up to the Iraq war. http://video.csupomona.edu/HotTalk/KarenKwiatkowski-245.asx
She also appears in this segment beginning around the 3:20 mark…
Hijacking Catastrophe
The same neo-cons are now trying to convince people that Iran is an immediate threat.
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
jumper wrote:
Quote-"You realize Britain’s defense community has really close ties to America’s, as little as they get out of the relationship sometimes? They are as much a part of the “inter-agency process” as most organs of the federal government. "
They got more than a little out of it in WWII didn’t they? Was that not good enough for you? Is it not good enough for you that we, including myself, are willing to do the same and may have to do the same in the near future for you(Europe). I guess all of the American bloodshed so that the Nazi flag isn’t flying over your parliment wasn’t good enough for you.
Oh how we all forget so soon, on behalf of my forefathers that died on DDay, your welcome too France!
Jumper, I have 1 question for you.
If the US defeated the nazi’s single handedly, why where they called “the allies”? I mean, if it was only the US, if nobody else was involved, if the whole world stood idly by while you guys defeated all the nazi’s, who where you allied with at that time?
Or perhaps “The Allies” was once the official name for the US? I should probably look that up.[/quote]
I guess you can’t read! Did I say they defeated them single handedly? NO, I didn’t. I said there was American bloodshed for Britain. Don’t put words in my mouth? I have a question for you though, could the Nazi’s have been stopped without the bloodshed of Americans? NO. I am not taking anything away from any of the Allied nations who fought, but just remember who the majority of the brave men were who stormed those beaches in France.
Also remember who got Gorby to tear down that wall. Hate us if you will, but someday you may need us again. Read exactly what I say before you post, you sound stupid when you don’t. Thanks
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
iran is emboldened by our involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq.
How do you know this? Is this what you have been told to believe? Who are the credible sources saying this? Is this what you think? What would be the solutions to unembolden them?
Don’t fret Effr0, pretty soon Bush’s masterplan will kick in and democracy will spread through the middle-east like wild fire. It’s only a matter of weeks or months.
That will unembolden them in a real hurry.[/quote]
Wreckless, thanks for posting, I was needing a good laugh. Your avatar kills me everytime almost as much as your posts do!
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Don’t fret Effr0, pretty soon Bush’s masterplan will kick in and democracy will spread through the middle-east like wild fire. It’s only a matter of weeks or months.
That will unembolden them in a real hurry.[/quote]
True that. Its already working magic in Iraq. Look how free the people are and how they embrace democracy.
Why not share the goodness on a larger scale? Maybe by democratizing (c) Iran also?
Its just a little stretch. Plus, you guys have plenty of people to die for your country. If there is not enough military just do a draft.
[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
It looks to me like Iran is 3 times the size of Iraq.
I don’t know about the rest of you guys…[/quote]
Hopefully we learned our lesson about rebuilding for an ungratefull people who hate us and instead we launch a massive air campaign, I would like to see shock and awe continue for months this time, IF THEY DON’T STRAIGHTEN UP FAST AND STOP THE B.S. THEY ARE PULLING, their fate is up to them, I hope they choose wisely, but if they don’t, tough. Trust me, we have enough ordinance to do the trick no matter how big it is. Why do you care, your in Canada? You guys don’t have to deal with terror, except when they try to storm your capital and cut off the heads of your politicians.
I still want to know what Generals are resigning? This topic offers no evidence except for hearsay. We can’t stay on subject because this topic has no evidence to support it. Generals are quitting because of Bush, sounds like propaganda to me.
[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
jumper wrote:
Why do you care, your in Canada?
Canada is considered America Jr. because our pussy whipped government does whatever Uncle Sam wants.
You guys start World War 3 in the Middle East… we’re screwed too.[/quote]
World War 3 was started when 3000 of our brothers and sisters were murdered on Sept. 11. We didn’t start this mess. Besides, being America Jr. isn’t that bad, just kidding. We will always have your back, thanks for having ours. I am glad we have Canada to help if we need them. You guys should be glad you have us. This problem(terrorism) is not going to go away by wishing it away.
Here’s a news flash: If we don’t do anything about this mess, we are all screwed. I know you and I don’t agree on much, but I understand your side of the argument, just try to keep an open mind in understanding mine.
Hopefully we learned our lesson about rebuilding for an ungratefull people who hate us and instead we launch a massive air campaign, I would like to see shock and awe continue for months this time, IF THEY DON’T STRAIGHTEN UP FAST AND STOP THE B.S. THEY ARE PULLING, their fate is up to them, I hope they choose wisely, but if they don’t, tough. Trust me, we have enough ordinance to do the trick no matter how big it is.
[/quote]
What BS is Iran pulling? If anything, it looks like the American government and certain facets of the military are itching for a war with Iran.
Then, of course, is my favorite lie that is being hammered into our brains by the mainstream press. But, I guess its all propaganda, right?
[quote]jumper wrote:
World War 3 was started when 3000 of our brothers and sisters were murdered on Sept. 11. We didn’t start this mess.
[/quote]
True. You didn’t start that mess. (Afghanistan terrorists)
You just started another one (Iraq)
And are itching for another (Iran).
[quote]
This problem(terrorism) is not going to go away by wishing it away.[/quote]
True. But its also not going to go away with the tactics your Prez is working with. If there are any tactics.
You will not abolish terrorism by invading countries one after another (and not finishing the job too) and stretching the military so damn thin.
[quote]
Here’s a news flash: If we don’t do anything about this mess, we are all screwed.[/quote]
Better fix the mess as it is right now and not let it get any bigger. If you guys begin fucking around in Iran and Russia, China jump in… its a lose-lose for the northern hemisphere.
I felt like pointing out the obvious: you are a ridiculous person.
That’s all.
Want examples?
Sure you do.
Using Kristol as a “neocon” is plain silly. Remind me again who he influences?
Again, you are ridiculous.
Now back to your regularly scheduled trolling.
JeffR
The neo-cons’ route to disaster
Financial Times
January 15 2007
The “surge” idea was developed and promoted at the American Enterprise Institute, a Washington think-tank that has long served as neo-con central. The neo-cons, like President Bush, are getting another throw of the dice in Iraq…
The problem with the neo-cons is not that so many of them are Jews. The problem is that so many of them are journalists…
The neo-cons that mattered most in shaping the “war on terror” served in the Pentagon and the White House. But the journalists are a vital part of a neo-con network that formulated and sold the ideas that took the US to war in Iraq and that is now pressing for confrontation with Iran. The links between journalists, think-tanks and decision-makers in the neo-con world are tight and there is plenty of movement from one area to the other. For example, David Frum, a former journalist, served as a White House speech-writer and helped coin the most famous over-simplification of the Bush era - the phrase “axis of evil”. He is now at the AEI…
William Kristol
He is the son of Irving Kristol, who is considered to be one of the founders of the neoconservative movement…
After the Republican sweep of both houses of Congress in 1994, arguably a result of the debacle over health care reform, Kristol established, along with neoconservative John Podhoretz and with financing from Rupert Murdoch, the conservative periodical The Weekly Standard.
In 1997, he founded, with Robert Kagan, the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), a movement credited in part for some of the foreign policy decisions of the Bush administration as evidenced by their 1998 letter to US President Bill Clinton advocating military action in Iraq, to “protect our vital interests in the Gulf”.
He is also a member of the conservative think tank the American Enterprise Institute from which the Bush administration has borrowed over two dozen members to fill various government offices and panels. Kristol is currently chairman of PNAC and editor of The Weekly Standard…
In 2005, Kristol caused controversy by praising President George W. Bush’s second inaugural address without disclosing his role as a consultant to the writing of the speech. Kristol praised the speech highly in his role as a regular political contributor during FOX’s coverage of the address, as well as in a Weekly Standard article, without disclosing his involvement in the speech either time…
Yellow Journalism at The Weekly Standard
“Who does he influence?” - Ah, you maybe…[/quote]
jtf,
Would you please stop it. Whatever your goal is, it isn’t working.
I guess your latest scheme is to contend that Bush couldn’t think of the surge on his own.
Most likely he sat down with his generals and started listening to John McCain who has been screaming his head off for just this since the beginning.
If you want to believe in some conspiracy, more power to you.
iran is emboldened by our involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq. They are counting on people like yourself allowing them to do whatever they wish. They are betting they’ll be able to do whatever they want.
Oh, it won’t be Bush who ultimately deals with iran.
As far as motivation, that is a frightening thought. You can see plenty of guys on this forum who don’t think iran is a threat.
Convincing the populace that that iran is a deadly threat would be the great challenge for the next President.
As an aside, it gives me no pleasure to point out the fact that there is silence or opposition from the cabal who loudly proclaimed “Hey, if we remove saddam to foster freedom, why don’t we remove all the dictators?” or “iran is more of a threat than Iraq ever was.”
It was all hot air. Those people wouldn’t support anything Bush did under any circumstances.
JeffR
Hey Jeff,
You didn’t answer any of my questions.
So I’ll ask again…
How feasible do you honestly think attacking Iran would be?
The military is already stretched damn thin. A three front war with our current military capabilities could be a recipe for disaster.
GW’s administration would, more than likely, have to draft.
A draft would be very unpopular, not to mention you’d be forcing people who don’t want to fight into combat. How well do you think combat units do when moral is abysmally low?
Hell, with this generations slacker mentality, the Iranians could probably kick the crap out of hastily trained unmotivated troops. [/quote]
unearth,
Your post reads like an npr editorial. You don’t want answers. You want to pontificate.
So, I pontificated better.
If you want answers, remove your garbage liberal adjectives and ask specific questions.
For example, “Hey Jeff, do you think we could take out the nuclear sites?”
Or, “Hey, Jeff what strategy do you think would lead most quickly to regime change.”
If you don’t, then we’ll just have to leave it as is.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
iran is emboldened by our involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq.
How do you know this? Is this what you have been told to believe? Who are the credible sources saying this? Is this what you think? What would be the solutions to unembolden them?
liftus,
What sources do you trust? Does it matter to you where I get the quotes?
Thanks in advance. I have to do this from now on with some of you. I’m not going to spend the time unless my opponents at LEAST think about what I have written.
JeffR
Its not good enough for me to be told that such and such will happen or is happening. I want to know how. I want to know why you deem the implications from said event to be important. You offer virtually no analysis in any of your writing yet we are suppose to infer that it is bad?
How is it possible to embolden another country? Why is it important that we do or do not do this? That is simple enough.[/quote]
liftus, what sources would you trust.
If you don’t take my word for it, whose would you take?
It’s a simple question. If you can’t give specifics, at least say something like, “liberal leaning media sources are best.”
I’m not going to go down the route of presenting excellent sources only to have them rejected because you don’t like the message.
Hopefully we learned our lesson about rebuilding for an ungratefull people who hate us and instead we launch a massive air campaign, I would like to see shock and awe continue for months this time, IF THEY DON’T STRAIGHTEN UP FAST AND STOP THE B.S. THEY ARE PULLING, their fate is up to them, I hope they choose wisely, but if they don’t, tough. Trust me, we have enough ordinance to do the trick no matter how big it is.
What BS is Iran pulling? If anything, it looks like the American government and certain facets of the military are itching for a war with Iran.
Then, of course, is my favorite lie that is being hammered into our brains by the mainstream press. But, I guess its all propaganda, right?
Dustin[/quote]
dustin and iran sitting in a tree…
Did anyone have any doubt that dustin would choose to believe iran over our own government?
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
iran is emboldened by our involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq.
How do you know this? Is this what you have been told to believe? Who are the credible sources saying this? Is this what you think? What would be the solutions to unembolden them?
Don’t fret Effr0, pretty soon Bush’s masterplan will kick in and democracy will spread through the middle-east like wild fire. It’s only a matter of weeks or months.
That will unembolden them in a real hurry.[/quote]
Hey, reckless. Always good to bump into your smelly carcass.
Tell me, little fellow, would you say there has been more democracy in the Middle East since early 2003, or less.
