Holy shit your still on that?
You replied to it dude: you’re the one still on it 
Remind me again how me saying reverse body dysmorphia relates to my pharmacology knowledge?
I never reminded you the first time, so I wouldn’t be able to remind you again…
Eh, not exactly a great comparison. I was a finance major, so that’d be like me saying “I received my college degree in finance, so I know everything there is to know about complex financial derivative trading because, you know, I have a degree that says Finance”. And I agree with @T3hPwnisher , you have that as your major, but you don’t have the actual degree yet. Now, if you stated, truthfully, that you had a phD in organic chemistry, THEN I’d be like holy shit, this dude probably understands almost ALL of the chemical changes he’s causing in his body from the drugs he’s taking.
Not to mention, like the warning you always see on things, everyone’s experience, tolerance, side effects, etc. can and will be different.
But, you’re an adult, it’s your body, if you are willing to take the risks with taking various AAS/insulin, that’s your prerogative. But I just think that jumping on SO early on in your weightlifting pursuits, you are never developing YOUR muscles with just your biology, if that makes sense. You are developing muscles based on this external source of androgens/anabolics…But when that external source is taken away…what will happen to your body? And worst of all, when you do get off and see, both on the scale and in the mirror, all the weight drop off, all the sudden tight shirts start getting looser, it’s a REAL mindfuck and unfortunately it causes many young users to immediately go back on and then stay on, sometimes indefinitely. When you do that, you guarantee trouble having children, speeded up male pattern baldness, bad blood work/organ damage, etc. For everyone who comes off that first cycle, it’s a big shock to the system.
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There were a couple of lads I grew up with that were like this guy and ended up jacking it all in before they reached 30. Chasing things in their lives they now find more rewarding whilst dealing with the effects of their “get big quick” schemes. They realized that nobody really cared, nobody ever listened to how much they lifted, and when it was all over, they didn’t care either. All they got from it was lasting physical regrets, and emotional wastage on the things that over time they realized weren’t that important to them.
I don’t know ANYTHING about anabolic use, but back then those lads were a teeny-weeny minority. Now with modern gym culture and pressures, I swear at least half of the lads under 25 in my gym are taking something, and many not even 21 yet. As far as I’m aware not a single one of them has any genuine bodybuilding goals. It’s an insecurity and “want it now” epidemic. The conversations I overhear, it would seem they know as much about chemistry and biology as they do about cable lateral raise angles.
If you push the big pillars of training buttons for a good few years, showing real consistancy and a long-term love of lifting, want to compete, have good people around you and a grounded mind weighing up the pros and cons - all the power to you. It’s your body, do what you want. I brought up those lads though because by the time they were working full-time jobs, had girlfriends, and saw all their “mates” go by the wayside… they realized it was never what they really wanted and are probably paying the price in ways they don’t talk about.
You’ve got a real gift here to listen to some wise old heads. Not many people have the agency to seek advice outside their circle, so take in what they have to say because science never tells the full story, and they aren’t here to harm you - they’re only trying to help.
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That’s what a cruise with trt++ with gh and insulin is for brother
Im a 100% sure your friends were those type of mfs who just add shit to add shit to there cycles, have a shit diet, no plan in the gym, no understanding on what these drugs to there body or there mechanism of action. Unlike me I have elite knowledge on this topic been studying AAS and even other pharmaceuticals that are non physical related for years + I’m a pharmacology major.
Interesting, begs the question why you’d ask this:
Elite level knowledge, but asking random internet people doesn’t tally.
I’m not here to pick holes, I’ll probably leave this thread alone after this post. This forum generally errs on the cautious/harm prevention side and starting use early and throwing lots of heavy substances at your body at a young age would be very much outside of the ethos.
I’m sure you’re already aware but:
As a long term plan is what most would consider high risk.
Long term insulin use risks (yup taken from AI, I do not have elite level knowledge of this sort of thing):
- Fatal Hypoglycemia: The most immediate danger is a “misfire” in carbohydrate timing, leading to a rapid drop in blood sugar. This can cause seizures, permanent brain damage, or death.
- Hypoglycemia Unawareness: Long-term users may lose the ability to feel early warning signs (shaking, sweating) of low blood sugar, increasing the risk of a “silent” coma.
- Type 2 Diabetes: Chronic use can desensitize insulin receptors, potentially leading to permanent insulin resistance and a clinical diabetic state.
- Pancreatic Suppression: The body may reduce its own natural insulin production due to the constant presence of exogenous hormones.
- Visceral Adiposity: Insulin is a powerful storage hormone; long-term use often leads to “organ fat” accumulation, contributing to a distended abdominal appearance.
- Cardiovascular Strain: Insulin causes significant sodium and water retention, which can lead to chronic hypertension (high blood pressure).
- Atherosclerosis: High levels of circulating insulin can promote the thickening of arterial walls, increasing long-term heart disease risk.
- Hypokalemia: Insulin shifts potassium from the blood into the cells; if managed incorrectly, this can cause dangerous cardiac arrhythmias.
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The fact that you had to use AI aka a fearmongering prick is insane. Also I came here because I thought people here knowledgeable on this topic I guess I was wrong. Except @RT_Nomad everyone else just fearmongers and pushes the idea that you don’t need gear if your not a 200 pound ifbb pro.
Outta curiosity what does your leg day look like?
You assume that those that disagree with you or who are more cautious lack knowledge, seems more like confirmation bias than knowledge seeking.
@RT_Nomad is indeed a knowledgeable man with great experience, however you dismissed @meastlake1 who has more up to date knowledge and experience, specifically experience with substances and doses that you’ll be using.
(Not knocking @RT_Nomad - always good to see him post on a thread).
Anyway I’m not an expert and probably not contributing anything useful to this thread so I’ll bow out.
Be safe @Kefka - make sure you do regular bloods, have a BP and BG monitor and consider a semi regular CAC scan if you’re doing this long term.
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im just a bystander reading this thread and have no horse in the race. BUT … im sorta curious regarding how the young man’s actual lifting is structured myself.
Push legs pull
2 sets of hamstrings 2 sets of hack squats 2 sets of leg extensions and 2 sets of weighted lunges. My 2nd leg day 2 sets of hamstrings 2 sets of leg press 2 sets of leg extensions 2 sets of Bulgarian split squats.
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Yessir got everything dialed in
Dude, you totally nailed it! This was what I was getting at. Like you, I have seen this happen to several friends/acquaintances over the years and like you said, once these young kids actually become “adults”, with a mortgage, a wife/kids, a career…not a job, and other full time responsibilities, suddenly “looking jacked” doesn’t really seem to make sense, with all the time and effort that has to be expended.
But for me, I put in the time/years in the gym, consistently lifting, and now I’m 300 lbs with a lot of lean muscle mass left over from my competition days. And the best part? Once you have truly acquired the muscle (meaning, not “renting it” which is what you are doing when on massive doses of drugs), it is quite easy to maintain it if you just stimulate it/lift 3-4 days a week, maybe an hour workout, and you do have to keep your protein intake up. But when you are in the “growth” phase, that takes so much more time, effort, food, etc. Meaning, trying to grow/get jacked when you have actual adult responsibilities is almost never on any man’s list of priorities later in life.
@alex_uk thanks for the nod. I also, as previously mentioned, once manufactured my own AAS while I was a competitive bodybuilder. OP really shouldn’t pat himself on the back as you can easily find instruction manuals, hell probably even videos now, of how to do it…and you don’t even need to be a pharmacology major! And for the OP to claim he’s been “studying this for years” is kind of ridiculous as you are barely out of grade school, so for “years”???
You know, it doesn’t hurt to be humble and just say you don’t know it all and are always still learning and would appreciate any advice/help and are willing to listen “with an open mind”.
But these young guys come on here all combative and proclaiming they’re the next Dan Duchaine, it’s quite comical. As I said, do what you want but maybe reread what @alex_uk posted regarding long term insulin use, it’s very real and it’s NOT a joke. Do you really want to mess up your own, natural system for a few pounds of muscle? That risk/reward is highly highly skewed towards high risk/little, probably temporary, reward.
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Are you forgetting that I’m not like most people? I know what I’m doing and long term insulin in use isn’t a problem at all. Only risk you have is permanent intestinal growth because insulin inhibit IGFBP-1 and IGFBP-3 wich are the proteins that inhibit igf-1. When those are blocked igf-1 becomes active and binds to igf-1 receptors but your intestines have an igf-1 receptor so there growth pathway (PI3K/Akt) gets activated and more cells start to support the regenerative ones sinse the intestines regenerate every 5-7 days. That’s why with insulin you do 4 weeks on 4 weeks off.