[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Yamato,
How do you define “dangerous”? Murder rate only?
I define dangerous as ** How likely am I going to be a victim of a violent crime.
Do we differ?[/quote]
In America I am more likely to be murdered, my girlfriend is more likely to be raped. I am more likely to cease to exist or lose a loved one. Statistically per capita I am more likely to be a victim of a crime that seriously injures or kills me. That is more dangerous.
The trade off is America is the greatest country to ever exist. America historically has been on the right side of history more than not. America offers the best opportunity to succeed. It has a safeguard that secures it’s freedom from foreign and domestic enemies. It has so much more than my country and most countries can offer.
But it is not safer than living in the U.K. I would gladly live in a more dangerous society and enjoy all the benefits that come with living in the freest nation on earth. I just don’t have a problem saying the right to bear arms is a great thing but it makes society less safe from a crime perspective. I also have no problem simply taking official statistics and admitting the U.S has higher rates of violent crime. [/quote]
And neither do I. And that is an admirable position and sentiment. And I completely agree. But I am trying to say that the statement you made is fraught with peril. You seem to think it is carved in stone.
I am saying this depends on how you define the problem–not that the US is safer, or that Lonfon is a cesspool. And you are making a blanket statement, which is what I have a problem with. Again, it depends on how you define the situation.
And I would add that the UK has…what, maybe 3 primary urban centers? Not including Scotland because it isn’t included in the crime stats we’re bandying about. If crime is a function of socioeconomic factors combined with population density, then it is really borderline unfair to compare the two countries seeing as we have over 20 centers of both population and finance, and your country does not. [/quote]
Sure, you make a valid point about urban centres and this making violent crime and general crime more widespread in America. My point wasn’t a judgement or criticism of the U.S. Just because I say it is a more dangerous society does not mean I don’t acknowledge the variables and the complex underlying reasons for that.
And yes of course socioeconomic factors do play a role. This ties in with the point I made about the freeness America offers. While America offers the greatest opportunities it also hasn’t got much of a safety net. So while things like private healthcare, much smaller welfare benefits than Europe mean more freedom and less taxation they also drive up poverty and crime. These create crime hotspots and make up for large percentages of the violent crime.
The same is true of London, Manchester, Glasgow, Liverpool, Belfast etc. Another tie in factor though is that while an argument in a bar or a fight between neighbours in the U.S can escalate to a gunfight because of access to guns, in Europe most of the time this will instead at absolute worst involve a stabbing or assault and most of the time just a fray.
Lack of guns means only drug dealers, gangsters etc have them and they generally shoot and kill one another. Which means countries like mine have 15 gun deaths a year.
All these factors mean that America has a more dangerous society but a more free and prosperous society. I would imagine if some form of universal healthcare was implemented in the U.S and poverty reduced you would likely see a large decrease but the open access to guns will still mean a much easier way for people to commit violent crimes.
Without a gun it is hard to rob someone or try and kill someone. An example being the chinese guy who went on a rampage in a school stabbed 30 kids and no one died, a kid in America can get his mums gun and massacre tens of kids in minutes.
Just as some guy can grab his legal handgun and shoot his wife or some hoodlum can get a gun with ease and knock off a store.
Criminals over here are generally scary because they can beat the fuck out of you and are psychos or hard fucks. This means there is a natural limit to how many we have. No one is getting robbed by some skinny guy with no gun. We have people do muggings here too but the chance of the encounter ending with someone dead is much lower. So for example even if we had more robberies at cash machines the risk of being killed in one here is much lower. In the U.S there are many more potential criminals who otherwise wouldn’t be able to be convincing criminals because the access to tools that grant the ability to rob a store or murder someone are far more readily available.
I suppose.