U.S. Progress

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]gojira wrote:
The Mage wrote:

Lets try discussing issues instead of people.

Now for the future. We will still be here. We will be richer, have more stuff, more free time, and will still be bitching about the same old shit. And this will be regardless of who is president.

The President serves as the representative for the administration in office. Personally, I don’t think GW is very bright and merely does what he is told. I don’t think he’s smart enough to be evil. But I think Karl Rove and Dick Cheney are. I don’t think he is any kind of a leader and couldn’t make a decision on his own.
I remember seeing a skit on SNL about Ronald Reagan. When the press or the public was in the room he was this kind of harmless fuddy-duddy. But when they left his demeaner changed to that of say, Dick Cheney, and he took control. But in front of the public he appeared to be this bumbling fool when in fact he was a ruthless calculating leader. It was pretty damn funny.
We don’t have leaders in charge any more, we have politicians that are driven by the agenda of their party. A previous poster stated that they didn’t think that they would try to turn over Row V Wade. Baby, that is number one on their hit list. The republicans and the religous right are very entwined. Many of the stands the republicans take are based on religous beliefs; gay marriage is a good example. And as far as abortion goes, it has always amazed me that these folks will go so far to protect a fetus until it passes through the birth canal. Then they don’t care about it any more. They do not care about the life already in progress (the mother) or the future of the child. It makes no sense, but then zealots rarely do. My belief has always been that it is not about “murder”, it is about restricting womens reproductive lives. Birth control and the right to choose are fundamental to womens independence. If you control a womans reproductive rights, you control the woman. [/quote]

Alright, let’s talk about abortion.

My mother and my father concieved me at age 19 - while my dad was in college and my mom was back from seatle where she worked for a while after she graduated High school.

My dad ended up dropping out of college so he could get a job to help take care of me, and marry my mom. They were married when I was 2.

Now I have to say my life has been anything but good most of the time( i am currently 19…) But my mom didn’t abort me, she could have, but she didn’t. She told me it wasn’t something she even considered. Good for her.

Earlier this week i was listening to a drunk guy on my floor at the dorms talk about how he drove 3 hours to go hold a girls hand as she got an abortion. He said he felt pretty guilty, “but I’m so drunk I don’t really care right now.”

I would like to think, I have made a positive impact on many people - that even though i’m only 19 I have made a difference. That I was worth being born, even without considering the fact that I will probably live another 50 or more years.

I never used to care about abortion, but when that guy talked to me, it wasnt an hour later that it hit me - I was in the shower, and it hit me like a brick wall. I hit the wall as hard as I could and fell down in the tub. I was in tears…

Say whatever you want - I don’t even care if it’s a human when you abort it, it would have been in less than a year.

If you are dumb enough to get knocked up, that’s your fault… but don’t kill somethign just because you don’t want it anymore (notice i said thing… just in case its not human yet…)

Hitler killed things he didn’t want anymore.

Good day.

42

Why all th focus on abortion. Who truly–truly believes this is the number one issue at hand for the Republicans or any other party. Yes it may be of the far right, but there is no chance–NONE–that either side wants to walk in this mine field.

It is what it is. And it is complete hogwash to assume and to infer as fact, that the goal of the Republican party is to control the woman by controling the womb. This is hysterical garbage–hyperbole at its finest, put forth by those with an agenda against the current administration. Nothing more.

Judicially speaking–it’s not even a right to life question. It’s a right to privacy between a patient and Dr.

43

[quote]gojira wrote:
Well, let’s see:

  1. The economy sucks.[/quote]

National debt as % of GDP under Clinton : ~66% Bush: ~62%
Nationa Debt as % of personal income under Clinton: ~81% Bush: ~77%
http://www.skymachines.com/US_National_Debt_Per_Capita_Percent_of_GDP_and_by_President_1976-2004.htm

Poverty level under Clinton: ~13.5% Bush: ~12.7%
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov5.html

Unemployment under Clinton: ~5%
Bush: ~5%
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm675.cfm

An objective observer might say that the economy is doing just fine.[quote]

  1. Gas is at an all time high.[/quote]
    Depends on location. Adjusted for inflation, gas prices in 1981 were $3
    Oil and gas prices, adjusted for inflation - My life as journaled — LiveJournal

[quote]

  1. Boys are dying in a stupid, political war.[/quote]
    A objective observer might note how two formerly totalitarian countries are now free. Or how terrorist haven’t been able to attack the US since 9-11.[quote]

  2. The environmental regulations are being eviscerated.[/quote]
    An objective observer might note that President Bush’s $44.4 billion FY 03 environment and natural resources budget request is the highest ever.
    http://www.usembassy.it/file2002_04/alia/a2042205.htm[quote]

  3. We have an administration that is trying to strip away our civil liberties.[/quote]
    Really? Which of your civil rights are they trying to take away?[quote]

  4. We have an emergency response system that is mired in bureaucracy and red tape which has cost people their lives.[/quote]
    An objective observer might note how this has alway been the case, and that it is actually the responsibility of local officials to take charge in a hurricane. But then, you’re not very objective, are you?

44

[quote]gojira wrote:
The Mage wrote:

Lets try discussing issues instead of people.

Now for the future. We will still be here. We will be richer, have more stuff, more free time, and will still be bitching about the same old shit. And this will be regardless of who is president.

The President serves as the representative for the administration in office. Personally, I don’t think GW is very bright and merely does what he is told. I don’t think he’s smart enough to be evil. But I think Karl Rove and Dick Cheney are. I don’t think he is any kind of a leader and couldn’t make a decision on his own.
I remember seeing a skit on SNL about Ronald Reagan. When the press or the public was in the room he was this kind of harmless fuddy-duddy. But when they left his demeaner changed to that of say, Dick Cheney, and he took control. But in front of the public he appeared to be this bumbling fool when in fact he was a ruthless calculating leader. It was pretty damn funny.
We don’t have leaders in charge any more, we have politicians that are driven by the agenda of their party. A previous poster stated that they didn’t think that they would try to turn over Row V Wade. Baby, that is number one on their hit list. The republicans and the religous right are very entwined. Many of the stands the republicans take are based on religous beliefs; gay marriage is a good example. And as far as abortion goes, it has always amazed me that these folks will go so far to protect a fetus until it passes through the birth canal. Then they don’t care about it any more. They do not care about the life already in progress (the mother) or the future of the child. It makes no sense, but then zealots rarely do. My belief has always been that it is not about “murder”, it is about restricting womens reproductive lives. Birth control and the right to choose are fundamental to womens independence. If you control a womans reproductive rights, you control the woman. [/quote]

And when, in all this, does the baby get to make it’s choice?

45

[quote]graphicsMan wrote:

This is true. It was a great move. However, even if the government is pulling in more now than in Clinton’s day, Clinton actually saw black. Bush is 8 trillion in debt.[/quote]

You are making an illogical leap here. Clinton was president, the deficit turned into a “surplus”, therefore Clinton was responsible. Just because two events happen at the same time does not mean they are related.

You need to say how he specifically brought down the deficit.

Truly 2 things brought down the deficit. The cut in long term capital gains, which prompted people who had been holding stock for a long time to sell, creating a taxable event, causing money to flow into the treasury, and the booming economy of the time, which was related to many factors that I cannot connect in any way with Clinton.

Another twist in logic is how you mention the deficit under Clinton, then mention the debt under Bush. Yes the Federal debt is about $8 trillion, (actually about $39.6 billion less then that, at the time I write this, assuming the debt clock is right,) and yes that sucks, but it didn’t suddenly pop up under Bush. It has been growing for decades.

And to be honest, I can’t really say there was a true surplus at any time in the 90’s because there was not a year where the debt did not increase. In fact the last decrease was at the end of the year 1960. (When they still used December 30 as the end of the fiscal year.) It also went down in 51, 56, and 57. So it has not gone down in 45 years, regardless of who was president.

From 9/30/1992 to 9/30/2000 the deficit increased a total of 39.17%.

This is the time right before his presidency to right before the end of it.

Now Taking 9/30/2000 to 9/12/2005 you have an increase of 40.11%. Remember this includes the effects of 911, and two wars. It will soon include the effects of Katrina, and the senior drug benefits.

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm

We do have to deal with disasters, and Iraq, but other then that spending should be cut. Programs should be eliminated. Waste must be eliminated, and pork should be cooked and eaten instead of put into budgets. This will only happen if we demand it.

And playing political gymnastics with the facts won’t help.

46

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

And when, in all this, does the baby get to make it’s choice?
[/quote]

The baby made its choice when it climbed into that woman’s vagina. It’s not like she did anything to get pregnant after all.

47

[quote]graphicsMan wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Another thing, the government pulled more money in on taxes than ever before this summer.

The economy has grown and the government is pulling in more money than ever.

Next time someone tries to tie tax cuts with our deficit please remember this.

This is true. It was a great move. However, even if the government is pulling in more now than in Clinton’s day, Clinton actually saw black. Bush is 8 trillion in debt.[/quote]

Bush’s failure to reign in government misspending is certainly hugely disappointing.

While some people cry over his supposed cuts to many programs, he does not seem to be cutting anywhere, although in certain areas he has slowed the increases over what was projected.