Trump Inauguration Thread

[therajraj]

It’s happening

White House says Mexico border wall might be funded by tax on imports

[Mufasa]

@anon50325502

I have said this a few time and I’m just going to keep saying it, we haven’t been a manufacturing export drive economy for quite some time and we aren’t ever going to be again.

We simply can’t:1) Produce goods at the prices consumers want while, 2) Paying low-skilled workers “living wages”*, and3) Providing the safety net that we do (government programs).

It’s simply not feasible for a US based manufacturing company to pay a US citizen, IDK, $30K/year to work an assembly line (The true cost of which is more like $44K). It’s not out of some evil capitalist greed either. It’s just simple math.

So, what have company’s done? They’ve outsourced and offshored because it makes economic sense. Most people benefit from this in the form of lower prices. I have yet to read an argument against NAFTA (from a reputable source anyway) that doesn’t at least note that the US does benefit from the agreement.

And, let’s say that Trump is successful at bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US through a renegotiation of trade deals or a trade war with Mexico, China, half of Asia, whatever. How long before company’s simply automate? There will come a point in the not too distant future where paying multiple people (that take breaks, get sick, have kids, go on vacation, etc…) will make less economic sense than spending $100k on a robot or whatever. We already see this sort of thing happening in the fast food industry with self-service kiosks.

I think we would be doing a disservice to the American Working Class and Middle Class to drive prices up on the goods and services we need and want for a temporary manufacturing job boon. There’s no foresight. 10 maybe 20 years from now these same people are again out of work.

IMO, One of the biggest disservices we can provide this generation and future generations is trying to revert backward in time as a temporary solution to our economic problems. We’re a service driven consumption economy. We lead the world, by far, in the export of services. We’re the technological and financial center of the world. This is where our focus should be. We should be helping low-skilled workers gain skills they can use in the reality of this economy (note: not necessarily in the former of college). It isn’t an easy fix, but blaming NAFTA or Mexico or whatever doesn’t fix anything either.

One of the best post I’ve read in a while, usmc…

(Or as they would say in the Corps…“Outstanding…”)

[MoreMuscle]

@therajraj

It’s happening

Next up: A tariff on all the goods imported from China. I’m sure all the companies will move back home.

[loppar]

@sunnbeaches105

We have a wealthy businessman in the White House. He knows Putin and is familiar with his thinking. We don’t bash professional diplomats for knowing our enemies, dealing with them, dining with them, etc. The innuendo gets exhausting and it’s beneath educated people.

Bullshit #1. You don’t know how wealthy Trump is because he won’t release his tax returns. Ever.

Bullshit #2 No one in those pictures was a professional diplomat when they were taken (TIllerson was a CEO of Exxon). Flynn was in Kremlin’s pay, ostensibly for speaking arrangements and that gala dinner which he openly admits. Diplomats aren’t paid to attend propaganda events.

So, the line “I just happened to run into Putin and his goons during my regular business activities” is…well, bullshit.

I don’t have the strength to run this again and again, maybe @smh_23 can rewards us with another literary outburst of righteous anger…

[sunnbeaches105]

Can you read? Where did I say he or his associates were diplomats? He’s running international businesses. Have you worked overseas?

Love the BS, I’m going to misread you straw man. FFS, throw out long paragraphs of ranting, repeat known history of Hitler, etc. Can you read and communicate succinctly? Or, do you think lots of words help you appear intelligent?

[loppar]

@Jewbacca

That the West won. Rather handily.

According to Russia, after the halftime loss in 1989, they staged a spectacular comeback on November 8th

If Donald Trump's looking for positive articles about his presidency, he'll find them in the pro-Kremlin Russian press. Today's review. pic.twitter.com/l2JC0aAqcf

— Steve Rosenberg (@BBCSteveR) January 26, 2017

[sunnbeaches105]

And you’re buying right into the propaganda

[anon50325502]

@sunnbeaches105

So you’re for the status quo, i.e., an acceptance of trade deals as is and a continuation of decades of trade deficits for years to come? Are we that afraid of Mexico?

We benefit from NAFTA. Simply saying (paraphrasing) “We’re being screwed by our trade agreement.” isn’t enough for me. It has nothing to do with being afraid of Mexico. If Trump rips NAFTA up the economy will contract, period. If Trump rips NAFTA up prices will skyrocket, period. These are economic facts. Why would we subject the American people to a recession when the agreement benefits us? That doesn’t make sense to me.

[quote=“sunnbeaches105, post:321, topic:225493”]
And what about China? They will overtake us.[/quote]

They will if we try to out manufacture them that’s for sure.

@sunnbeaches105

Over one billion people are there working under a government hell bent on growth and on keeping a totalitarian level of control. The question is simply when.

It is very unlikely that China will overtake us economically while restraining the Chinese people. They will also very likely have to go through serious growing pains if the Chinese people ever have a real Middle Class like we do.

@sunnbeaches105

We need to be fighting that tooth and nail.

Sure, but we should probably be smart about.

I don’t really know what else to address in your posts. Did you want to bomb China for militarizing the South China Sea? I mean, okay I guess…

@sunnbeaches105

We are less than a week into the process and people are already shaking in the knees. We haven’t even sat down at the negotiating table yet.

Look, I don’t really care if Trump re-negotiates every trade deal we have. If that’s how he wants to spend his Presidency then more power to him.

[loppar]

@sunnbeaches105

Can you read? Where did I say he or his associates were diplomats? He’s running international businesses. Have you worked overseas?

Michael Flynn ran an international business? Please fucking enlighten me how former DIA directors run international businesses.

Is it fucking normal for an oil executive to receive a medal from Putin?

Yes, I fucking have worked and I know about these things more that you, obviously.

[therajraj]

[quote=“loppar, post:325, topic:225493, full:true”]

Bullshit #1. You don’t know how wealthy Trump is because he won’t release his tax returns. Ever.[/quote]

What exactly do you get out of knowing his exact worth? All estimates have all been north of a billion

@loppar

Bullshit #2 No one in those pictures was a professional diplomat when they were taken (TIllerson was a CEO of Exxon). Flynn was in Kremlin’s pay, ostensibly for speaking arrangements and that gala dinner which he openly admits. Diplomats aren’t paid to attend propaganda events.

If these are nefarious as you like to frame, why on earth would these members of Trump cabinet allow pictures to be taken openly? They’re not exactly hiding their meeting, these pictures aren’t leaked, so what gives?

[loppar]

@therajraj

If these are nefarious as you like to frame, why on earth would these members of Trump cabinet allow open pictures to be taken

You’re bullshiting again and twisting facts.

When these pictures were taken noone could have dreamed these stooges would be anywhere near the White House.

[sunnbeaches105]

You seem to jump from negotiating and starting with hard ball to automatically shutting down trade. Slow down.

We all know that we aren’t manucfacturing widgets for the world again. That’s a fact that I do not dispute. The same with automation. The questions I see revolve around slowing down (not stopping) the bleeding, ensuring that our trading partners are subject to reasonable standards, and enforcing the deals we have and revise. The argument you’re against isn’t the one I’m making. I’d also argue that we need to ramp up natural gas production. That will certainly help provide jobs and help offset the trade deficit.

As for China not overtaking us while restraining the Chinese people, I think you’re falling for a falsehood. They are three times our size and also have vast natural resources. They don’t need to be at our level of efficiency to become more economically powerful. Further, I don’t believe the lie that totalitarian control will automatically equal economic or other weakness. They’ve made great strides. In a nod to our friend who likes to make historical comparisons, look at Sparta and Athens.

I’m not saying we need to go to war with China. I was pointing out the weakness in the pivot to Asia, and highlighting it against what Trump is doing. I mentioned a while back my acceptance of the reality of spheres of influence.

As for your last point, ok. Not sure why you’re arguing against it then. No worries.

[sunnbeaches105]

Nice. You seem upset. Do you also lose your cool around a negotiating table? That’s bad form in most countries.

Michael Flynn would know more about these issues than both of us. You’re playing a childish game.

Edit: here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/national-security/fbi-reviewed-flynns-calls-with-russian-ambassador-but-found-nothing-illicit/2017/01/23/aa83879a-e1ae-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html?client=safari

I’d add that everyone going to Russia knows they’re being recorded.

Are you a diplomat or someone with international business/legal experience? I am the latter and have lived in three countries as a professional. We can disagree and you can dislike me, but cut this dick measuring BS.

[therajraj]

You sure about that?

That picture was taken December 10 2015, when Trump was well ahead of the other GOP candidates and constantly talked about bringing in ‘Generals’

[loppar]

@sunnbeaches105

Michael Flynn would know more about these issues than both of us. You’re playing a childish game.

No he doesn’t. Seriously. He couldn’t tell the difference between shia and sunni Muslims by believing for example the that Iran is responsible for the Benghazi attack, which shows that he’s got a very tenuous grasp of foreign policy, if we ignore for a moment the Kremlin connection.

@sunnbeaches105

Are you a diplomat or someone with international business/legal experience? I am the latter and have lived in three countries as a professional. We can disagree and you can dislike me, but cut this dick measuring BS.

The latter, in fact. And let me tell you something - losing your cool in many countries is considered a fucking asset, to paraphrase President Trump - ex-USSR countries and some ME as well prize such behavior when based upon personal integrity in business matters because it means you’re not grovelling in front of them and being star struck because you’re hoping to meet a fucking dictator and become one of his besties. Hint, you can’t - you’ll be at best a “polezhniyi durak”, an useful idiot.

I’d venture to say I’ve met (and even refused to meet on occasion) assorted creeps/government functionaries and businessmen from a wide variety of the world’s shitholes, including the Russian Federation and half of the Middle East.

So although I don’t claim to know much, based on publicly based information I’d venture to say I know more about half of the President’s team.

[sunnbeaches105]

lol

FoS internet know it all. Enjoy your long winded rants

[loppar]

@sunnbeaches105

FoS internet know it all. Enjoy your long winded rants

I will. Enjoy your President and his rich vocabulary.

[zeb1]

@MoreMuscle

If he is going to get Mexico to “reimburse” us for the Wall…what do you forsee? Tariffs which result in “counter-tariffs?” Obviously he would have to re-negotiate NAFTA for this.

What I think is in the history of our great country there has never been anyone that went from being a very successful business man to the Presidency. Therefore, those who cannot think out of the box might be surprised as to what Trump might be able to negotiate…or fanangle in regards to the wall.

Time will tell right?

[zeb1]

@loppar

Yeah, the Presidents National Security Advisor can’t sit next to Putin on a Russian propaganda gala dinner while being paid by the Kremlin through his private consulting company without the leftists getting all worked up over nothing!

You have to stop the propaganda. Don’t make me pull out photos of Ronald Reagan shaking hands with Gorbachov. And spending several hours on multiple occasions negotiating with him. And at times complimenting him.

How come you won’t admit that this is a left wing propaganda trick?

I admitted long ago that the birther movement was simply to harm Obama’s Presidency.

I see through political ploys and I think you can too.

No?

[EyeDentist]

@zeb1

What I think is in the history of our great country there has never been anyone that went from being a very successful business man to the Presidency.

Keep hope alive! I’m sure it will happen someday.