So, which things are you against? I know you’re against Plan B because you feel it is essentially a potential chemical abortion. Let’s leave that aside. Condoms are a barrier, why be against them? Are you against sex Ed?
I mean, what exactly are you opposing?
All contraception. But in that case it is voluntary and on a personal level.
Condoms are sold at many gas stations, even. I have no interest in changing the legality of it as it’s a victimless issue. Abortion kills an innocent human life so I call upon the state to step in. That’s the extent of it.
Isn’t “law enforcement” in our scenario education and contraceptives? It’s the steps past making murder illegal that might reduce the chance of it happening.
So why not be for education which helps people who are going to have sex do it in a manner that decreases their chances of an unwanted pregnancy? Why not increase access to birth control? Make it paid for so poor people can obtain it cheaply and easily? Work to increase access to health care that gives people the ability to stop unwanted pregnancies from happening or at least decreases the amounts? Fight to change the way Alabama and some other states push a view that is known to lead to more teenage pregnancies?
It’s all victimless. No one is hurt by a couple using a condom or the birth control pill, IUD’s whatever. It allows them to do something very natural and lowers the risk that they will be infected or have an unwanted pregnancy. The cherry on top is when we do these things we decrease the odds of someone choosing to abort a baby regardless of legality.
All of this is better for society than just hoping people won’t have sex before they are ready to have a child. That would be great I suppose but it’s completely unrealistic and history has shown us ineffective. If abortion is murder surely you want to decrease the chances of it happening regardless of what the law says about it.
We can leave out the pure hypocrisy of wanting all people to be born and then hating them because they are gay or fighting against health care for poor people many “pro-life” people for now.
There are no inherent rights.
It’s an argument against the idea of the sanctity and preciousness of human life. Innocent human life. The idea is mutable. It’s subject to whim, greed, prejudice, fear, etc.
I have no obligation to pick a side. I can admit that both sides’
arguments have flaws. I can admit that how I feel about the subject is just that, how I FEEL. Can I tell other people how to live based on how I feel? Who am I to force others to follow my leap of faith? And is it coincidence that the pro life people, who are really anti-abortion, are anti so many other things because of a need to judge others based on their leap of faith and irrationality? Jesus said something about the beam in your own eye.
No, its law enforcement. Just like with murder.
Bro, I’m not getting distracted. Abortion is the deliberate killing of an innocent human life. I can be against that without needing to support contraception. If you want a condom, get one. They’re legal, literally hanging on bathroom walls, and behind counters or in the aisles in nearly a dozen businesses in just a 5 mile radius here. There is no real movement to take away your condom or pill.
This is about the premeditated killing of innocent human lives.
Then we can live in whatever way we wish. Including a pro-life theocracy.
You can have the no inherent rights or value argument. Plant you flag in that if you want. No inherent right to an abortion (or marriage) either, though.
Then I’ll ignore you until you actually pick a side and committ to it. I’m not wasting more time with someone simply playing contrarian. And badly.
And the passage is about hypocrisy, not being devoid of judgement.
We, being the important word. What you propose is not we, but some of us.
You choose being dogmatic, judgmental and fundamentalist. I choose flexibility and keeping an open mind. People like you don’t bring about revolution and progress. You are obstacles to them; the cause of them.
You need me to pick a side because you want a confrontation, an enemy in whom you see your opposite reflected. I don’t need to live in a world of us and them. To paraphrase Groucho Marx, any tribe that would let me join it is not a tribe I want to be part of.
You also completely miss the point about inherent rights. Not having inherent rights doesn’t mean we don’t have rights. We are the ones who decide what those rights are and who they apply to.
For a non dogmatic fella your tone sure comes off as such. Have fun. I gotta go pick up amoxicillin for what might be an inner ear infection. The resulting vertigo isn’t exactly putting me in the mood for patient debate.
Ok. So we diagree over that application of which and to whom. Not like I can be ‘wrong’ either in such a scenario.
Forgive any snappiness.
You sure about that? Haven’t there been movements that have resulted in companies no longer having to provide female contraception for example.
You mean being forced to provide insurance coverage? Not sure if you’re talking about that or not . I will catch up later or tomorrow. Not to be rude and not respond, but really under the weather today. Take care.
Don’t confuse dogma with condescension.
Not everything is about right and wrong. Life isn’t a children’s story.
We can’t support a woman’s right to be a whore but apparently it doesn’t matter what a man does with his penis.
what’s distracting about education, access to contraceptives, and avoiding teachings that tell kids they go to hell if they use those things? I think these are very important factors when we are looking at abortion as a topic. All of these things effect the frequency of it and the situations that lead a woman to potentially choose that.
What’s different is you want to make abortion illegal and then you’re pretty much cool with anything else that happens as a result of that. But you’re actively against things that would reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and reduce the number of illegal abortions
But our discussion has been pretty circular for a while. However if the topic is abortion the factors I’m talking about are incredibly important to it.
No one is arguing condoms aren’t easy to find. But we have a group that doesn’t want to educate people about their benefits. That makes people feel that using them may jeopardize your chances at salvation.
This. It’s difficult to debate someone about rights or the morality of something, when he believes Hitler’s holocaust was perfectly fine until the Germans lost the war. That is the “no inherent rights” argument.
Stunningly, those same people often want to point out how terrible were so many things in the past. Slavery? “Totes terrible/would def have opposed…even though I now let the government determine right and wrong for me.”
If you are referring to me, since I said there are no inherent rights, then you can go fuck your mother. What you just posted is not only extremely offensive but one of the stupidest things I have read on this forum.
You probably don’t even see the irony in your last sentence.