Back to The Trump Administration, JD Vance gives a great explanation of the silly word games Democrats are always engaging in.
Maine expends a staggering amount on illegals and goes to extraordinary lengths to obfuscate it.
Do explain.
The thought that it is conservative to preserve the current US culture and society as it now exists sounds anything but conservative. The USA has devolved drastically this last decade. It’s like entropy has firmly taken hold.
Just listening to many on this thread, their “conservative” would be to retain the US culture and society of the 1990’s. This would require a change from the current culture.
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If we look conservative as one who is opposed to extreme forms of modern ”value based” liberalism, yes maga is conservative. But I think it’s not sufficient definition. I’m somewhat opposed to modern ”wokeism” as it’s extreme, but I’m not terrible conservative in my values.
Maga is not completely unified political movement (what is after all?). It definitely has conservative actors, and some conservatives support it. What options do they have? (Other reason I’m not a fan of two party system).
But if you look leading figures of Maga, specially Trump or Musk, do you think they represent conservative or christian values? Like how?
Also, I actually think that the hard spearhead of Maga is not trying to get USA back to some place before. They’re shaping something new. That’s completely opposed to conservatism. The changes might be significant, abd I think that’s part why people are so scared and accuse them from authoritarianism etc.
Yes and no. The political actions are unprecedented, but so was the woke revolution itself. Legally-speaking we definitely are trying to go backwards to 1990-ish by rooting “woke” out of government. All of that is being unwound at the federal level, even if not yet at state level in Maine.
Exactly. MAGA is a counter-revolutionary movement, perhaps just as much as it is a Christian nationalist movement, which doesn’t mean theocracy, either.
Through their ideas about government that are compatible with mainstream Christianity while having virtually no traces of theocracy. Many secular people also find The 10 Commandments in the classroom to be a benign symbol that doesn’t negatively impact their child’s education at a public school. Many of these same people reject transgenderism in public policy, especially public schools.
The woke revolution has already happened when DEI and transgenderism were rapidly (historically-speaking) introduced into American society and public policy, calling everyone who didn’t agree disparaging names and worse. It’s just that the woke revolution was ultimately unsuccessful at the national level, and now it is being systematically unwound and defunded.
A swing and a miss on a count of 2 strikes, three balls with the bases loaded.
This whole revolution and counter-revolution thing is very strange from my POV.
Woke was a “dud” here, and our version of “maga” seems to be quite weak too.
I meant the values they seem to have aren’t conservative or Christian.
At any point in time “conservative” is to the right of “liberal.”
Every compromise moves the “conservative” a little to the left. The Left wins every compromise.
Do you have any idea how liberal today’s “conservative” looks to me? My idea of conservative is pre-Vietnam War.
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Perhaps your comparatively homogenous culture and the telos that comes out of that explains that differing outcome. Perhaps a secure system of voting does, too.
There was no mistaking the revolution here. Beginning around 2012, the American taxpayer was subjected to a sophisticated state propaganda campaign funded by ourselves by laundering public money through a series of NGO’s. It goes back further in many ways, but The Smith Mundt Modernization Act is what enabled this truly bizarre propaganda campaign that we all lived through recently to introduce these ideas in a very coordinated way.
And here I am today, concluding yet again to not exercise my government-enshrined human right to decide I’m a non-binary transmaxxer and go get naked in the women’s locker room at the YMCA. This while I’m taxed to import vast numbers of people from distant lands who are told explicitly by my government NOT to assimilate.
These modern Marxists called Democratic Socialists ALSO want to let the prisoners out of jail and into society, just like the Bolsheviks. They’ve implemented many such policies in Maine under the banner of “decarceration”.
The revolution has been happening here, no doubt about it.
Not particularly, but Christians aren’t expecting Jesus to run for President, either. Compared to the alternative, he’s practically a saint when it comes to the actual government policies he supports vs what Maine has to live with.
This is valuable information. So you don’t feel maga being conservative either?
You probably have difficulties finding suitable candidates in elections, I reckon.
I know a guy who thinks enlightenment and moving away from aristocracy to democracy was a mistake. That’s true conservatism. Hahah.
When it comes to government I am a pragmatist, not an idealist. I always vote against all liberals, without exception.
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I guess so too. It’s hard to divide small and homogenous population.
We have our problems, no doubt. Our economy is in the trash. Gov. policy has traditionally been very leftist here, with free healthcare, schooling (teachers actually get paid well), free uni. and wide social security. It’s all going down now.
But issues like transgenderism, Christianity (we actually have a state church here) or women’s rights aren’t the biggest issues. Although they are also debated at times.
Immigration is a hot topic, but show me a western country where it is not.
The whole point of all forms of Socialism is to divide people into in and out-groups, far moreso than “seizing the means of production” through nationalization. After power is seized and secured, they extract wealth from the out-group to redistribute to the in-group. This is why they almost all believe in “continuous revolution” as decades go on, because they need new tricks to stay in power. This is why they’re always at each other’s throats eventually, too. That’s just one of the reason why National Socialism is real Socialism, as is Democratic Socialism. They just differ in the social division methods. Race, class, gender, and now this “revolutionary” idea that we can transcend our bodies to become legally-recognized members of the opposite sex, along with being the only mental health condition a person can acquire that the rest of society has a responsibility to treat.
It’s not just that the ideas exist in society, but that they are deeply incorporated into public policy and spending priorities here, varying on a state-by-state level, of course.
Well we have had huge democratic socialist party here for over 100 years now and we’re not divided.
I do agree that socialism has kinda run it’s path. At least here and now. Workers are well paid and have strong benefits (not sure this applies to US though). That’s partly why left has adopted the identity politics/culture wars, to have some purpose. A huge mistake from their part.
At a quick glance, there is definitely some overlap with the DSA, but their whole problem is they don’t have enough ways to divide Finland up into “marginalized groups”, which is the Orwellian term for the actual in-group of Democratic Socialism as it is implemented in Maine. You need more non-Finns and transgenders, in other words. You know, more diversity, so you can then have more equity and more inclusion.
Related, I recently read that the Sami people are the only people who are officially recognized as “indigenous” in all of Western Europe. Is that true?
Yes. At least in the EU.
They would definitely be unpopular in US. But I think they’re not dividing anything.
This is of course just political “empty talk”, but this is from their home page:
For us social democrats, important topics include work and a fair working life, effective public services and safe neighbourhoods, caring for people, environmental protection, as well as guaranteeing and fostering education and training. The values of SDP are defined in our Declaration of Principles.
Values
Our core values are freedom, equality and solidarity. The values of social democracy are implemented, above all, through democracy, the welfare state and cooperation. The society must guarantee each of its members equal opportunities to build their own life.
You mentioned earlier that you have people who have moved to Finland to tell Finnish people that they are racist against non-Finns. What party do they belong to?
In Maine, Democratic Socialists have the actual prevailing political ideology at the moment, operating as the Democratic Party, with full control of the government since 2019. It is an interesting comparison to me because Maine was the whitest state in the USA prior to mass migration and expansion of Maine’s social welfare policies to incentivize people to relocate here to collect them. Maine was still much more “diverse” than Finland even though it had a similar percentage of white population. It was still the same hodgepodge of European cultures, languages and religions as found elsewhere in the USA. Lewiston was actually the most French-speaking city in the USA when I moved here in 2010, with something like 1/3 of households speaking it at home.
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I can’t recall. Maybe none? I would count them as some radical individuals. Maybe the Left party (even more leftist group) has some. But it’s not a common theme amongst them either.
There was actually a study that said Finnish being pretty racist compared to other western countries. I have lived in countryside and it’s not surprising. The ethnic variation is very minimal. Specially the older less educated folk seem to have prejudices.
MAGA is a revolution to return to a time when America was great. When you believe America was great is up for debate. But the movement would be considered a vast move to the right by everyone. Many don’t like it.
Compared to every political movement with any chance to make a difference, the MAGA movement is by far the most conservative.
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Yeah that’s a big difference between “leftwing” politics as they actually exist in Maine today compared to what you’re describing. You have to imagine that those people actually wield government power. For example, Bates College in Lewiston, ranked very highly as one of the “Little Ivy” league liberal arts colleges, recommends that its students read BlackGirlInMaine’s blog. It is straight up Marxist racial revolutionary while not being explicitly Democratic Socialist or affiliated with the DSA as an organization. The same is true for all of the people who are all using different words to say the same thing and then applying government policy however they can to achieve it. The in-group is going to plunder the out-group because history happened and social justice redistribution of wealth is needed to correct the course of society.
And what you mean by great too.
In a guess I would see greatness as a influence and power. In that sense America has been great from 2ww and onwards.