You would probably be exported from the country. Not sure how this relates to the topic.
I don’t have deeper insight on Harward’s politics, but I suspect there are variety of different thinkers, even some Marxists. As it should be.
Freedom of speech can be limited in various ways, legislature is only one of them. I haven’t gotten deep in to this, so there might be things I don’t understand.
But parts like below got my attention:
reporting students to the federal government who are “hostile” to American values
hiring an external government-approved party to audit programs and departments “that most fuel antisemitic harassment”
Universities in the Soviet Union were all owned and operated by the state, like every institution. Harvard is a private university receiving generous taxpayer funds and they are still free to operate however they wish. It is very similar to the transgender situation in Maine. Federal tax money will no longer be sent here while we teach all of the kids about transgenderism and allow boys to clobber girls in sports competition while waving their dong around in the girls’ locker rooms.
It is the same idea.
The BBC article fails to mention that the Federal government is talking about deporting green card holders who are here to be social arsonists, a common problem on campuses. This does not apply to US citizens and the First Amendment doesn’t apply to green card holders or any other guest.
A right is a right, and the Second Amendment doesn’t apply to green card holders here, either. If you want to buy a bunch of really cool guns and carry them in public, you’ll need to gain US citizenship first.
This is part of Trump’s systematic defunding of Marxist thought and its activist apparatus, which I completely approve of. Professors and students who are citizens are free to be as radical as they want, but they aren’t entitled to have taxpayers foot the bill for their salaries or tuition. If you are a guest in the country on a green card, you should at least remember to act like you want to be here to contribute positively, not burn down western civilization.
Germany’s law is much, much different. They implemented the concept of hate speech and enforce it on citizens, locking them up for saying a wide variety of things that are perfectly legal for citizens in the USA to say. It is a major, major difference.
It’s the BBC, of course they will explain the situation in the way that makes Trump seem as bad as possible.
NPR and PBS do the same. I’m ashamed to have once donated money to NPR.
Democratic Socialists don’t generally believe in the concept of citizenship, so they eagerly conflate different concepts like legal and illegal immigration. In this case, the word “student” is used, with no explanation of how green card holders are treated vs citizens.
It is a common propaganda technique that allows their statement to be technically true, but lacking in context to fully understand. It is as natural as breathing is to woke propagandists.
The 1st Amendment only addresses that Congress shall not make a law prohibiting the freedom of speech. Don’t mistake that literally being there is no cost for speaking anything you want.
The EEO (Equal Employment Opportunity) law and Hostile Work Environment law will get you fired for speech that is making any member of a minority group feel that they cannot work in that hostile environment. Sure, you can say anything you want, but you might not consider it “free” unless looking for another job “freedom.”
Deciding to who gets money and who does not is fairly effective too.
Not to mention”the mob rule”. If you say publicly something that’ll get a lot of people angry, you’ll might have a bad time in interwebs and maybe even IRL.
Here’s a very basic way of looking at the situation.
How is it in the American taxpayer interest to fund political radicalism?
A freedom of speech but not freedom from negative reactions issue is playing out in Maine. A small newspaper in rural Maine ran a New Hampshire white supremacist’s book burning advertisement.
It’s the same asshole who inserted himself into my barber’s daughter’s beating on the school bus. He gets a ton of attention because people are desperate to believe he’s a political threat with his six followers.
Might be. There is never objective information around anyway.
Thanks for your arguments regarding this. I can’t say more about it, since that article is pretty much all I have read about the topic.
This is true. It’s used in politics constantly. Seed of truth, but twisted or simplified somehow. I had similar feeling with the Vance’s speech regarding the free speech in Europe (which we talked earlier this year).
What none of the Trump apologists and cultists will acknowledge is that this is a means for a political party to control the ideological narrative that is imposed on students. They cry about indoctrination while doing the same.
Now, some will read that and accuse me of being against Western culture and values, because they are no better than the left when it comes to playing some card. You will not find one poster here who is more supportive of Western culture than me. While most posters’ ancestors were scratching their asses in caves, my people were busy inventing Western culture.
The truth is, Trump and others, don’t really care about Western culture. What have any of them done to promote Western culture? They’ll tell schools to not have drag queen story hour but are they telling schools to teach philosophy and the arts? The foundation of Western culture.
The difference I see is that Vance wasn’t being deceptive. He was being direct, which can come as a shock to people who are used to mush words from American swamp politicians for the last several decades.
He was very clearly talking about what is explained in this video, and similar cases in other countries. A crystal clear case of vastly different values. Germany no longer has free speech.
Simplifying too much can be deceptive too. I think he did that. Similar thing is how Ukraine’s war is somehow Zelensky fault now.
But it’s how politicians speak.
Ps. The Curt’s video is a prime example of this. It’s a silly law, but German’s aren’t imprisoned en masse, or the freedom of speech is not somehow endangered. And it’s not illegal to criticize immigration.
I linked pretty long article or two about the topic earlier.
By opening the can of worms in the first place, they have given up on free speech. It just isn’t a nuanced issue at all for me and I believe America has it right.
The UK has even more glaring examples.
Generally speaking, the left ALWAYS favors censorship, being the arbiters of hate speech, and allowing the government to control what can be said. The government collusion with facebook during Biden’s teleprompter administration was a very, very clear attempt at subverting free speech, especially during Covid.
Facebook abandoning those policies is what allows good faith political discussion to happen in my town. Sure, we could always meet up in public and have discussions, but the internet as it is currently functioning in the USA Ais much more effective to communicate political ideas.
It is one of the most important ideological battles of our time. That Germans are going along with a bad idea doesn’t give me a high level of confidence in the political concept. They don’t have the best track record in that regard.
The UK is a bit more of a shock, and I think we’re going to continue to see more shocking developments coming out. They are still seemingly rowing in the Socialist direction.
It’s definitely a slippery slope and the UK is working on defining “Islamophobia” at this moment.
Apparently police officers are the arbiters of other forms of offensive speech.
It a fundamentally subjective concept, allowing the government to change the rules to whatever they perceive as harmful.
They try the same crap here, which forms the basis for Maine public schools requiring transgender vocabulary to be used by students and faculty. If you don’t comply, it is believed by many to be harmful behavior.
Anti- American protesting has been happening since the Vietnam war. It was happening on campuses during BLM along with other chants like “Amerikkk”. American flags being burned has been happening. I have seen like 3 isolated incidents where this has happened recently with regard to Gaza and one of them looks to have been started by a random White guy.
During today’s press conf. Karoline Leavitt stated that these cuts are because of so called Anti-Semitism. That was the header on Fox News.
It has nothing to do with Woke ideology it is the Woke Right and Israel first politicians/public that are pushing for this. Freedom of speech was never censored.
Once again it is a foreign country influencing what America does.
But, Israel is losing the control they had thanks to independent media and are clawing to keep some of it. People no longer listen to mainstream/legacy media outlets.
That is why Bibi/Israel is having secret meetings with podcasters to push a narrative, has Douglas Murray on a media tour (though he was owned by Dave Smith on JRE). It is why you have Dave Rubin, Shapiro, and Sam Harris constantly talking about antisemitism.
If the Right does not wake up this will be the fracture that ruins MAGA and the “America First” movement. That could be their plan.
I just finished that JRE podcast yesterday. I thought both had pretty good points but Murray had more good points, along with more depth of thought. Murray got off on the wrong foot with his elitism, but his point about the importance of elite minds is a good one. Smith isn’t one of those, although he’s a perfectly intelligent guy.
From what I observe locally, the same crowd who demanded my city council “Stand with Gaza” are the same crowd who want illegal migrants trafficked into the country, prisons abolished, criminals roaming society, open drug use in public, and all of the other disastrous policies.
I don’t want them to be censored or jailed for that, but I don’t see why we should fund it with tax dollars. I’m totally fine with deporting green card holders who come here to subvert our government and society.
None of the Trump administration’s actions seem to target citizens. It is a form of needed pushback, as the ideological differences are no longer theoretical academic debates about how things will go if we enact woke policies.
I think you are overestimating the perceived divide in MAGA as it relates to Israel.
What points were those? He has an undergrad degree in English what makes him an expert? On the Lex Fridman show he went on about the exact opposite.
Are those not illegal immigrants and adults? They are not students at Harvard. The cuts in funding were not because they were Pro-Gaza but, because they Labeled the demonstrations as “anti-Semitic”.
Again, not the case. This was not done because of trans women competing with women or other woke ideology.
I don’t think so, Daily Wire is having financial issues. Jordan Peterson recently got a lot of push back for his takes in regard to Israel. Tucker Carlson has been very outspoken against Israel as well as other Right leaning independent media. The younger Republicans are not in favor of any wars being fought for Israel.
I took it as the difference between a regular guy having an opinion vs a professional or subject matter expert.
It’s why I form my opinions about politics and especially history from sources I find credible. I don’t know anything about Murray or Smith except what I heard them say on the podcast.
The Gaza crowd who spoke to the council seemed to be mostly Bates College students. It’s not Harvard, but it is an elite school and considered one of the “Little Ivy” schools.
Antisemitism seems like a perfectly fine basis to deport green card holders who come here to harass Jewish students and faculty, along with denying funding for allowing it.
That it has nearly 100 percent overlap with Democratic Socialism is icing on the cake, as far as I’m concerned.
As far as different opinions about Israel on the right, I don’t seem that as being likely to drive many out of the MAGA movement.
I’d personally prefer it if ALL foreign nations have diminished influence in American politics. I have no more desire for my kid to go fight in the Middle East than I do for him to fight in Ukraine.
I’m sure some shady things have happened with Israel but it’s not an issue I’ve spent much time on. As is obvious from my posts, local politics is my current hobby.
