[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Then how did the “human element” get left out of capitalism? Did our owners forget to consider the evils of greed and the motivation to “dick-over your neighbor” for profit? You are selective in your consideration of the “human element”.
[/quote]
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Then how did the “human element” get left out of capitalism? Did our owners forget to consider the evils of greed and the motivation to “dick-over your neighbor” for profit? You are selective in your consideration of the “human element”.[/quote]
The human element is very present in capitalism, but capitalism works well with the human element. Where communism breaks down as soon as greed and selfishness appear, capitalism thrives on it.
That’s the difference between pie-in-the-sky philosophy, and a system that actually works in the real world.
All communist countries have been, are, and will be failures. All the countries with thriving economies are built on capitalism.
And while a modicum of government intervention is usually required to restrain the excesses of savage, unbridled capitalism, the meddling necessary is trivial compared to the massive propping up communism requires (and even then, still fails.)
The human element is not ignored in capitalism; on the contrary, it’s required for it to work.
Communism is for ants and termites.
[quote]orion wrote:
Well, first of all you are not a communist but a communitarist or maybe a syndicalist. [/quote]
You folks thinks what the Soviets implemented was communism. Guess what? It wasn’t. It was Bolshevism and Marx was rolling in his grave when people refered to it as communism.
[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
Well, first of all you are not a communist but a communitarist or maybe a syndicalist.
You folks thinks what the Soviets implemented was communism. Guess what? It wasn’t. It was Bolshevism and Marx was rolling in his grave when people refered to it as communism.[/quote]
And yet it should have outproduced the west.
However, since communism is inevitable, fear not young comrade.
Why are you even awake at 4.30 in the morning?
[quote]pat36 wrote:
So another year of Bush and then 8 years of Hillary, makes you just wanna eat a bullet doesn’t it?[/quote]
Hillary Clinton will NOT be the next president of the United States.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Lifticus, you are drifting.[/quote]
Everything you and the nay-sayers have written only has any validity if your explanation of human nature is the only correct explanation. I don’t think its as simple as “kill or be killed”.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Lifticus, you are drifting.
Everything you and the nay-sayers have written only has any validity if your explanation of human nature is the only correct explanation. I don’t think its as simple as “kill or be killed”.[/quote]
Mine has basis in the generally accepted practice of psychology. We even have experiments and documentation to back it up. Operant conditioning is pretty strait forward. Unrewarded behavior will slow down or cease all together.
Communism doesn’t reward the individual, it redistributes the fruits of his labor. Hence, effort put into that labor becomes minimal.
Defining reward in this case is something positive resulting from some effort given. It’s not like winning First Prize in the long dick contest.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Lifticus, you are drifting.
Everything you and the nay-sayers have written only has any validity if your explanation of human nature is the only correct explanation. I don’t think its as simple as “kill or be killed”.[/quote]
That is also false.
Noone ever “invented” capitalism, it is not the brain child of some cooky German philosopher.
It organically evolved because human people are what they are. Contrary to other -isms capitalism is the direct result of human nature and the beautiful thing is that we do not even have to fully understand human nature, it still works.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Everything you and the nay-sayers have written only has any validity if your explanation of human nature is the only correct explanation. I don’t think its as simple as “kill or be killed”.[/quote]
No one has said that is the only aspect of human nature - we are just saying it is one that must be accounted for as a dominant theme.
Humans like banding together, they like charity, the like sharing. They also are selfish, resentful, territorial, and competitive.
Capitalism embraces all these varied aspects - nothing in capitalism stops people from being as benevolent and sharing as they want - it simply embraces human nature as it is, rather than as it wants it to be.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
pat36 wrote:
So another year of Bush and then 8 years of Hillary, makes you just wanna eat a bullet doesn’t it?
Hillary Clinton will NOT be the next president of the United States.
[/quote]
Yup. Fred Thompson. He’s CFR and will get all their media and financial backing.
[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
Well, first of all you are not a communist but a communitarist or maybe a syndicalist.
You folks thinks what the Soviets implemented was communism. Guess what? It wasn’t. It was Bolshevism and Marx was rolling in his grave when people refered to it as communism.[/quote]
Marx was right in one sense and wrong in another: he believed that capitalists would strip everyone to the bones and the workers would finally rebel because they have no choice. This was wrong. He WAS correct in Capitalism evolving into Communism, but this will occur when no one needs to work any longer, when human needs can be satisfied with very little effort. When there is no need for class differences or need for a division of labor, those things will promptly disappear.
Of course, Orwell predicted that powerful people won’t allow this to happen (they’d lose power). So, they initiate countless wars in an attempt to stop society from evolving.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Defining reward in this case is something positive resulting from some effort given. It’s not like winning First Prize in the long dick contest.
[/quote]
You’re right. There is no reward in watching the community succeed as a whole.
A reward is very subjective.
[quote]orion wrote:
It organically evolved because human people are what they are. Contrary to other -isms capitalism is the direct result of human nature and the beautiful thing is that we do not even have to fully understand human nature, it still works.
[/quote]
Yes, that was never one of my arguments. It only works for the strong.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
orion wrote:
It organically evolved because human people are what they are. Contrary to other -isms capitalism is the direct result of human nature and the beautiful thing is that we do not even have to fully understand human nature, it still works.
Yes, that was never one of my arguments. It only works for the strong.[/quote]
Welfare works for the weak. And it works well.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
orion wrote:
It organically evolved because human people are what they are. Contrary to other -isms capitalism is the direct result of human nature and the beautiful thing is that we do not even have to fully understand human nature, it still works.
Yes, that was never one of my arguments. It only works for the strong.[/quote]
The system allways works for the strong, but who the strong are changes.
Strong in capitalism means “being able to serve other people”. That takes brains and initiative and discipine.
Compare that to those who are strong in a welfare system , they are weak in skill and work ethic but strong in numbers.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Anybody thinks we’ll have memorials in tribute to Bush’s victims?[/quote]
Careful with that straw man, Lixy, that stuff flares up faster than you think.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
This is true, he is pretty much a lame duck. The only thing he can do is veto now. At this point he is a figure head.
So another year of Bush and then 8 years of Hillary, makes you just wanna eat a bullet doesn’t it?[/quote]
You misspelled Giuliani.
[quote]Mr. Clean & Jerk wrote:
pat36 wrote:
This is true, he is pretty much a lame duck. The only thing he can do is veto now. At this point he is a figure head.
So another year of Bush and then 8 years of Hillary, makes you just wanna eat a bullet doesn’t it?
You misspelled Giuliani.[/quote]
there`s a difference?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Defining reward in this case is something positive resulting from some effort given. It’s not like winning First Prize in the long dick contest.
You’re right. There is no reward in watching the community succeed as a whole.
A reward is very subjective.
[/quote]
Not in this case. It’s vague but not subjective. Here is a more formal definition:
“Positive reinforcement occurs when a behavior (response) is followed by a favorable stimulus (commonly seen as pleasant) that increases the frequency of that behavior.”
Most people want the new car in their garage, not a bus for the whole community.
Nobody wants to live in a bad neighborhood, but very few people get off on seeing a community improve on the backs of individual labor.
Children!!!
Read the books!!!
There is no victims of communism.