And now the dialogue swings back to if this is a physical or a mental affliction.
Good…good…
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I’m just assuming their position for argument’s sake. FWIW, it strikes me as more of a mental health issue, but whatever people need to do to operate in society is fine by me. I don’t care.
I do care when they demand I think a certain way, however.
The silly Indians in the Peter Pan ride pissed off one of my kids. I told them to get over it and enjoy the ride. Any land with flying kids, a sentient crocodile, and a dog as a nanny can have noble savages, too.
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Man, people have demanded I think a certain way my whole life. If I cared whenever that happened, I would be exhausted.
Just curious, but at what point would you consider it “demanding you think a certain way” vs just being a polite, fair person. For example, if a burly bearded trans woman asked to be called Jenny with her/she pronouns, would you be on board?
Everyone has their limits as to how out of their way they are willing to go to be inclusive and courteous of others.
Having tried in good faith to remember to call a person “it”, I can assure you that adhering to language standards that are new and contrary to the way you’ve always spoken IMMEDIATELY demands that you think a certain way.
If you act politely the way you always have, well, that’s not good enough. You now need to not only be polite, but have the presence of mind to remember to use “it” whenever you would have just said “he” or “him” for the entire rest of your life.
Try it on your wife, brother, friend etc sometime. See how long until you slip up.
Expecting that from other people to accommodate your special request is, in my opinion, very impolite.
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Of course you’ll slip up, it’s new to you. Only assholes would have a problem with that if you are putting in a good faith effort. I see it as the same thing as a friend going by a different name, or asking to not get called a nickname. It’ll take a little time to get engrained, but not a big deal.
Is the expectation to accommodate or to try to accommodate? I find the two to be different.
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Not at this point. It’s been about a year and my brain still goes to “he” when I’m looking at someone who is built like @T3hPwnisher but slightly scaled down and quite possibly deeper voiced. So does his radical feminist friends’ brains, because they slip up too.
I’m wholly unaccustomed to refering to people as “it” and men as “she”. It feels like I’m telling a lie every time I say it, and for me requires a level of vigilance about my language that I am also unaccustomed to.
The name change was easier for me, since it was a gender neutral variation on his given name. I rarely slip up on that.
With my friend it began as the former and shifted to the latter.
I think it’s reasonable to expect people you know to make an effort to accommodate your name or pronoun preferences, but to expect flawless execution is probably not realistic. The couple of trans people I know cut slack for mistakes, but get upset over what they perceive to be callous disregard of their wishes.
I’ve never heard of “it” as a preferred pronoun, it’s always been “they” in my experience, which is difficult. No one ever knows who is being referred to when discussing others. But on the other hand, it doesn’t seem worth a fuss. I’m happy to tolerate some need for clarification if it makes someone’s life feel significantly better.
Personally I would have a problem with “it” because it’s so dehumanizing. I’d probably either avoid talking to it or referring to it altogether, or start using its name in place of “it,” which I’m sure would sound weird, too.
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Idk, it’s never seemed that hard to make the effort to call someone what they prefer. IMO it’s a tiny effort to be courteous akin to holding a door, or grabbing a stranger’s dropped item, etc.
Using their name constantly is what I’ve done instead of pronouns. Makes you sound like a cheesy sales guy/gal/zer haha
Haha, I see what you’re saying, Bob! Can be a bit of a sticky wicket! Anyway, Bob, what can we do for you today?
That is unfortunate. Unreasonable in any circumstance.
Making the effort isn’t particularly hard, but two people getting along requires two way effort. My friend has it, but if he didn’t I have the freedom to not be friends.
Codifying any of this into law by legal precedent, legislation or unelected bureaucrats changing policy in government or schools is where it all goes off the deep end for me.
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That might be valid in a given case, single person or even a few, but for multiple and random people it’s just ridiculous.
Hence the binary system- looks female=she. Looks male=he.
Identifies as a clam chowder in an upside down rainbow bowl=their fucking problem.
Idk. It’s been easy for me. When I’ve said “excuse me sir”, and they respond with “it’s ma’am”, I don’t care. I just then say “can I get by ma’am?” And we both go on with our day. No issues on either side.
It’s not difficult to not be a dick. Though being a dick is most certainly something you can choose to be.
The codifying into law is a lot, agreed. That said, being a rude, mean, prejudicial person is grounds for getting canned and always has been so I don’t see a law having too much effect. That said, no fucking way the govt should be telling you how to speak or think.
Who is really the dick though? The group that is indifferent or the one trying to codify and impose civil damages or criminal charges on people that use the “wrong” pronoun.
I’d say it’s the later group. Feel free to disagree.