[quote]new2training wrote:
…
Well, I guess it works for the 20%.
Peace [/quote]
Works great for the 20%.
That is a really good point. There needs to be more signs and more teaching about the proper way to merge.
As they noted they put up signs to reduce road rage because most people don’t know this stuff.
It really is OK to use both lanes.
Pass it on!
I see a lot of stupid shit on the road, some are just idiots and some are just assholes. The only thing that really pisses me off is people passing me and then turning right. But what is the point of trying to speed up and prevent them from moving over? To show them that I can be a bigger idiot or asshole than them?
Driving around looking for a chance to be an asshole to other drivers is sociopathic behavior, and people who do that deserve whatever they get. Whether that’s a ticket or a brick or bullet through the windshield.
[quote]new2training wrote:
Interesting studies Zap. Thanks.
Seems counterintuitive but if that’s what the experts say, who am I to argue.
However, it seems like the research shows that during low-capacity volume the early merge works well and may be safer.
?We appreciate motorists wanting to merge early so they can avoid unsafe merging maneuvers, and they should merge early under normal traffic speeds,? said Mittelstadt.
?But when the roadway is congested, drivers should use both lanes all the way to the designated merge point and then take turns merging
During high volume the late merge utilizing both lanes may work better, as long as everyone is aware that is the system being used. The system that PennDott is using may work well.
What doesn’t work is when 80% of the drivers use the early merge technique and 20% drive to the front of the line.
Well, I guess it works for the 20%.
Peace [/quote]
you’d call choosing open road over getting on line “counter-intuitive” ?
that’s the most backward thing i’ve read today.
and what’s wrong with it working for 20% ? why are you judging me for finding a better way ? you have every opportunity to increase that 20 % figure. use it.
here’s another rule of the road that most everyone gets backward : right of way.
right of way is given, not taken. if you assert your “right of way” you are in the wrong.
lol
Swivel,
No shit, the guy who uses the clear lane to get to the front of the line is going to get through faster than if he merged over sooner. That’s why a lot of people consider it egotistical. Putting the self before the larger community.
I simply meant that it seemed counter-intuitive that the group as a whole could pass through a bottle neck quicker by using a late merge.
That part of Zap’s study surprised me.
As far as thinking you found a better solution. Maybe you did, but don’t you think the it occured to everyone else too, they just decided not to do it.
Hell, go for, just don’t be surprised when it pisses people off and they don’t want to let you in.
In my locale, it is illegal to turn into a lane other than the far-left lane. It is considered changing lanes in an intersection.
If I want to make a LEGAL left-hand turn through an intersection, and then try to get into the right-hand lane to turn at the end of the block, I am cut off by assholes who decided it fit to change lanes in the intersection and choose whichever lane they bloody well felt like taking – placing themselves at or just behind my blindspot in the process.
They are in the wrong and I cut them off. They have nobody to blame but themselves.
–ElbowStrike
[quote]new2training wrote:
lol
Swivel,
No shit, the guy who uses the clear lane to get to the front of the line is going to get through faster than if he merged over sooner. That’s why a lot of people consider it egotistical. Putting the self before the larger community.
I simply meant that it seemed counter-intuitive that the group as a whole could pass through a bottle neck quicker by using a late merge.
That part of Zap’s study surprised me.
As far as thinking you found a better solution. Maybe you did, but don’t you think the it occured to everyone else too, they just decided not to do it.
Hell, go for, just don’t be surprised when it pisses people off and they don’t want to let you in.
[/quote]
no, i’m not surprised because it happens alot. i drive about 40,000 mile a year. but i am mystified. using a legal, open, and clear road is no more egotistical than using the passing lane to pass. if anyone’s being selfish it’s all those folks who somehow think they’ve paid their dues and are therefor entitled to be first or whatever because they waited on line when they could’ve just used the open lane. and instead of realizing that they are asleep @ the wheel and merely falling into line for the sake of being on line, they take it out on someone who’s minding their own business and obeying the rules. that’s truly egotistical wouldn’t you think ?
it reminds of the time i visited alcatraz and there was a huge, huge, line to get tickets. but their was another open ticket window without a line. we, counter-intuitively, skipped the line and went to the open ticket window and asked for tickets. she said her window only handled “will-call” pickups for telephone ticket sales. so we stood right there, called them up, and had tickets in about 15 minutes and made the next boat. some people were pissed when we walked on. is that my fault ? had i somehow taken something they had a right to ? was i somehow morally obligated to go to the back of the line ? they watched the whole thing and they could’ve called them up just like i did, but they didn’t. why ? i have no idea. for some reason they wanted to wait on line and then be able to bitch to about that rude young man who got on the boat before they did and they’d been waiting an hour… i think some of them were still there when we came back from the island.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
It really is OK to use both lanes.
Pass it on![/quote]
The problem with this is that you get people that speed up and pass on the right (apllies only when the right is the merging lane).
Maybe it works where you have signs telling you to use both lanes, but in other areas, the people that merge early, or earlier, don’t want to be passed by someone on the right who waited to the last second to merge. That other lane isn’t going to let that car in.
On the oher hand, I agree completely that using both lanes as long as possible would work well if people remained at a fairly constant speed in both lanes and took turns merging. It just doesn’t happen in real life (again, maybe it does where there are signs).
As far as the thread’s original topic, I don’t do anything to torment drivers and not much on the road bothers me these days. After living in SoCal for 7 years, no amount of Milwaukee traffic could possibly compare.
However, when I was younger, I was horrible to anyone I thought was a asshole driver. One thing i did often was, if the other driver had the window down, when I got next to the other car, I would throw sodas, juices, or whatever beverage I had into the other car’s window. Yeah, kids do stupid things.
One last thing, I see no problem with tapping your brakes to warn a tailgater. I’ve seen it often, especially with cell phones, driver are coasting and may not even realize how close they are. Soemtimes the break lights flashing are enough to wake them up. That being said, there’s a difference between tapping and slamming.
Swivel,
I doubt either one of wants to spend any more time typing about this subject so I’ll just leave it at this.
Maybe we’re talking about two different situations. If not then we just think differently. No problem.
If both lanes are meant to be used, up until the merge point then yes, it only makes sense to use both lanes.
In those cases (such as Zap’s late merge scenario) the road crews put up signs clearly communicating that both lanes should be used.
When there are 3 miles worth of arrows and blinking lights telling drivers to get into one lane, at some point, prior to the actual end of the lane, you should probably consider getting the hell into the other lane.
Anyway, I’ll see you when we get there. Heck, I’m a pretty nice guy, I might even let you in. I’d be cussing you, but I’d probably let you in.
I’m out of here, have a good evening
I won’t let you in because I hate you.
[quote]new2training wrote:
Swivel,
I doubt either one of wants to spend any more time typing about this subject so I’ll just leave it at this.
Maybe we’re talking about two different situations. If not then we just think differently. No problem.
If both lanes are meant to be used, up until the merge point then yes, it only makes sense to use both lanes.
[/quote]
this is where we think differently. there is a merge point. that’s the point where you merge. when the lane closes they fill it with cones. how is that not clear ? when you see a red light 100 yards up the road do you stop right there ? of course not! you stop AT the light.[quote]
In those cases (such as Zap’s late merge scenario) the road crews put up signs clearly communicating that both lanes should be used.[/quote]
it’s pretty clear when a lane is closed and when it’s open, because it’s open.
we’re not talking about people riding on the shoulder and horning in. we’re talking about open road. i’m amazed you think you’d think you’re “letting me in” when i have every bit as much right to the road that you do.
i really think you should use that open road next time. you’ll feel alot better. you might even shift that percentage to 70/30. which may gain momentum into 60/40. and who knows one day it could be 50/50…
[quote]swivel wrote:
this is not “legally”. this is agressive driving and is ticketable. the left lane is the passing lane. if you’re in it you should be passing. if you’re slow you should let others play through.[/quote]
The sad part is that I was already over the speed limit. So basically I saved the driver behind me from a speeding ticket. And the highway I was on only had two lanes, it wasn’t even under construction. It’s still illegal?
That was on the way home after a crappy day at work 2 years ago. 99% of the time I pull to the right, let the guy in a hurry pass, and hope that HE gets pulled over.
I like Zap’s post about America not educating their drivers enough…
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
That is a really good point. There needs to be more signs and more teaching about the proper way to merge.
As they noted they put up signs to reduce road rage because most people don’t know this stuff.[/quote]
I know this thought has crossed my mind on more than one occasion. I know everyone in the 'burbs of Chicago could stand to learn proper four-way stop protocol.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
When they become assholes and try to cut around me or expect me to just sit and let them do what they want, then I fuck 'em over as MUCH AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.
[/quote]
I’m trying to reconcile this with the universal ethic of reciprocity, i.e., The Golden Rule.
[quote]BFBullpup wrote:
swivel wrote:
this is not “legally”. this is agressive driving and is ticketable. the left lane is the passing lane. if you’re in it you should be passing. if you’re slow you should let others play through.
The sad part is that I was already over the speed limit. So basically I saved the driver behind me from a speeding ticket. And the highway I was on only had two lanes, it wasn’t even under construction. It’s still illegal?
That was on the way home after a crappy day at work 2 years ago. 99% of the time I pull to the right, let the guy in a hurry pass, and hope that HE gets pulled over.
I like Zap’s post about America not educating their drivers enough…[/quote]
you can go to the rmv and get the book and read up. rotarys, four way stops, merging, yielding, right of way, left lane pass etc. it’s all in there.
[quote]swivel wrote:
you can go to the rmv and get the book and read up. rotarys, four way stops, merging, yielding, right of way, left lane pass etc. it’s all in there.
[/quote]
There should be mandatory re-education. No sleeping in class allowed.
The tapered line of cones does not signal a merge point. They signal the beginning of the construction zone. It is placed there for the safety of the workers. Merging should take place well in advance of the cones.
Additionally, merging early decreases the total time for which it takes the entire queue to pass through the construction zone. If the queue has to stop to let late mergers in it takes longer for everyone to get through.
[quote]PGA wrote:
StevenF wrote:
I hate the people that don’t merge when there’s construction that closes a lane of traffic down. They try to speed by everybody that has already merged and cut in front of them. One time I was sitting in the lane next to the lane that was closed ahead, and I see this lady speeding along in that lane…
And its because of assholes like her there’s unnecessary traffic. I hate that shit. Same with assholes who try to speed ahead when entering a highway.[/quote]
Wait a minute. Just because she refuses to get in line with the rest of you sheeple, she makes the unnecessary traffic happen? The only thing she apparently does is make you mad because she won’t obey “the rules”.
The exception to this is when someone’s last-minute cut-in must be forced and this causes cars behind them in their current lane to have to slow down or stop.
That’s why, when I do all my last-minute (or second!) cut-ins, I make sure I do it in front of a big truck or some guy who’s not paying attention — there’s always one around.
Now if the guy not paying attention is named…let’s say StevenF or PGA, and he gets mad, then oh well.
[quote]lookedpast wrote:
The tapered line of cones does not signal a merge point. They signal the beginning of the construction zone. It is placed there for the safety of the workers. Merging should take place well in advance of the cones.
Additionally, merging early decreases the total time for which it takes the entire queue to pass through the construction zone. If the queue has to stop to let late mergers in it takes longer for everyone to get through.
[/quote]
Using both lanes to the merge point and then the zipper merge is the most efficient way to get traffic through.
Late mergers do not cause traffic stoppage.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Using both lanes to the merge point and then the zipper merge is the most efficient way to get traffic through. [/quote]
Too bad zipper merges rarely happen in real life.
[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
That’s why, when I do all my last-minute (or second!) cut-ins, I make sure I do it in front of a big truck…
[/quote]
Am I understanding this correctly? You like to put the entire freeway in danger by forcing a large truck to suddenly change its speed?