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Nutrition
21

[quote]blackmalice wrote:
Great responses, I appreciate it.

You’re definitely right about food, and I get plenty of it, but I’m one of those types that it’s hard to gain weight, so knowing that, would it be better to get Creatine or BCAA’s (as it seems to be the two more frequent responses)?

Also, are they safe?

I take a multi-vitamin everyday and take fish oil about 3 times a day since both are very cheap and last awhile.

[/quote]

Okay, the fact that you said it’s hard for you to gain weight just spells that you don’t know how to eat yet.

Get yourself a journal. Write down exactly everything you eat and count the calories. Whatever you come up with is NOT ENOUGH, as you’re not gaining weight. Eat more. Consume 2xbody weight in grams of protein and 3xbodyweight in grams of carbs. Supplements like Surge and whey will help you reach these goals.

What’s your training like?

22

I need to stop mixing things with heroin, it’s a bad habit of mine.

Thanks for info, and kroby you’re absolutely right about that, but I’ve changed my diet around. I was just stating that I was that body type, I don’t exactly know if it would sway the vote towards creatine and BCAA, but that it might be good information.

I don’t want to waste your time with my training and sound like a complete fool, as I don’t have my eating habits perfected as of yet, so I’m focusing on that. But still, if you have some advice to give, I would be grateful:

day 1: upper body
day 2: 30 min high-intensity cardio
day 3: lower body
day 4: 30 min high-intensity cardio
repeat (workout everyday)

Mostly compound exercises, high sets, low reps with a lot of weight.

23

[quote]blackmalice wrote:
But still, if you have some advice to give, I would be grateful:

day 1: upper body
day 2: 30 min high-intensity cardio
day 3: lower body
day 4: 30 min high-intensity cardio
repeat (workout everyday)

Mostly compound exercises, high sets, low reps with a lot of weight.[/quote]

stop the high intensity cardio if you want to gain weight. Maybe do some incline walking for 30 minutes. I’d stop it altogether, but that’s just me.

For strength:
day 1: upper body-ME chest, DE shoulders/back

Day 2: lower body-ME deadlift (hip dominant stuff), DE squat(quad dominant stuff)

Day 4: upper body-ME shoulders/back, DE chest

Day 5: lower body-ME squat, DE dead lift
days 3, 6, 7 off.
Do max effort (ME)/ dynamic effort (DE), such as 5x5(max effort) and 3x10(dynamic)

For hypertrophy… 3x6 on primary lifts, 3x10 on secondary lifts and 3x15 on tertiary lifts. Oh, and do one body part a day.

Strength does not equate to muscle exactly. I’m bigger than quite a few powerlifters, but they blow me away on strength. But I’m bigger. And that’s what I’m going for.

Check out this article…

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1474118

24

[quote]kroby wrote:
Okay, the fact that you said it’s hard for you to gain weight just spells that you don’t know how to eat yet. [/quote]

Yup. Yet so many ignore this just so they can spout of their “knowledge” of supplements.

Even the very owners of the freaking supplement company that provides this site have said repeatedly that supplements are meant to, well, supplement. If your diet is not in order, there is nothing to supplement.

I don’t get why so many rush in with, “Use x-supplement.” I truly believe people do so just so they can repeat whatever it is they think they have learned about supplements.

If they actually cared about helping the OP, they would ask him about his diet before recommending any supplements. But, again, those people don’t reply to help. They just want to show off their mad supplement knowledge.

25

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:

Oh, 100% of people say supplements work - even when they don’t. So what “seems” to work for people really doesn’t matter to me. [/quote]

Well said.

(I’m agreeing with you a lot lately.)

26

[quote]Mad Titan wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Chewie wrote:
Food. Seriously.

I absolutely agree. The older I get, the more I realize that only around 10% of people who “train” need to even worry about supplements. (I don’t include protein powder, something like Surge, and fish oil as supplements.)

No one will listen, though. People would rather spend hundreds of dollars on miracle pills rather than train hard and eat properly.

I agree with you on this. the only supplements I use are whey, fish oils and aminos. The last two I just started using as of last year. Usually I just eat like there’s no tomorrow and at the same time keeping it clean meaning no fast food etc.[/quote]

Titan this is great to know. It is so compelling to want to find some magic supplement.

Although I am a fan of ZMA. Since I started taking it I sleep better and my legs aren’t jumpy at night.

I appreciate your, Chewie and CaliforniaLaw’s posts.

27

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
kroby wrote:
Okay, the fact that you said it’s hard for you to gain weight just spells that you don’t know how to eat yet.

Yup. Yet so many ignore this just so they can spout of their “knowledge” of supplements.

Even the very owners of the freaking supplement company that provides this site have said repeatedly that supplements are meant to, well, supplement. If your diet is not in order, there is nothing to supplement.

I don’t get why so many rush in with, “Use x-supplement.” I truly believe people do so just so they can repeat whatever it is they think they have learned about supplements.

If they actually cared about helping the OP, they would ask him about his diet before recommending any supplements. But, again, those people don’t reply to help. They just want to show off their mad supplement knowledge.[/quote]

It would be interesting to learn who doesnt need to supplement periworkout nutrition, particularly since he mentioned he has problem gaining.

What scenarios are there in which you would recommend a person not supplement for workouts above all other things? Seems kinda basic to me, but Im open to learning.

I confess I am borrowing this information, but I borrow it from those who routinely dial in their diet and still strongly recommend periworkout supplementation, in the form of bcaas.

28

[quote]David Barr wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:

Oh, 100% of people say supplements work - even when they don’t. So what “seems” to work for people really doesn’t matter to me.

Well said.

(I’m agreeing with you a lot lately.)[/quote]

Don’t you design supplements?

29

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
Mad Titan wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Chewie wrote:
Food. Seriously.

I absolutely agree. The older I get, the more I realize that only around 10% of people who “train” need to even worry about supplements. (I don’t include protein powder, something like Surge, and fish oil as supplements.)

No one will listen, though. People would rather spend hundreds of dollars on miracle pills rather than train hard and eat properly.

I agree with you on this. the only supplements I use are whey, fish oils and aminos. The last two I just started using as of last year. Usually I just eat like there’s no tomorrow and at the same time keeping it clean meaning no fast food etc.

Mad Titan you’re a freak though!! Haha with all the supplements and food in the world most of us would be lucky to look like you!

I think a pre-workout energizer is highly under rated. You generally see lack of intensity as a key failing point for new and even some more advanced lifters. For me no supplement beats Spike or another energy supplement before hitting the weights.[/quote]

Granted genetics plays a role but no amount of supplement, pre-workout energy or otherwise can beat DEDICATION. Intensity doesn’t mean anything if you are only intense one day out of the week or 2 months out of the year. Its the days you don’t feel like going even though you are capable that really counts. Like people who only “show up” for chest or arms day.

However, never “showing up” for legs.
When I say dedication, I don’t mean just training but nutrition as well. Some of the supplements do what they are supposed to do. However, most of them are just all hype. Basically I believe if people spend a little more time planing and implementing their WORKOUT ROUTINES and NUTRITION.

They would see far better results. The money spent on NOEXLPODE could be better spent on steaks, eggs, fish etc and for supplements fish oil, multi-vit, whey and bcaa. Maybe creatine every now and again.

30

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
David Barr wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:

Oh, 100% of people say supplements work - even when they don’t. So what “seems” to work for people really doesn’t matter to me.

Well said.

(I’m agreeing with you a lot lately.)

Don’t you design supplements?[/quote]

He never said supplements don’t work. Neither did I.

31

[quote]David Barr wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:

Oh, 100% of people say supplements work - even when they don’t. So what “seems” to work for people really doesn’t matter to me.

Well said.

(I’m agreeing with you a lot lately.)[/quote]

When I am not so obnoxious, I am actually pretty easy to agree with. That I come so differently online than I am offline is something I’m working on!

32

I think supplementing for long term health is a better idea then supplementing for short term goals like muscle growth. Unless of course your rich and dont mind dropping pills 5 times a day.

I do take Creatine, mainly because its so cheap and easy to take.

I also take fish oil, protein, cod liver oil (vit D + efa’s). Glucoseamine/chondroiten/MSM thingy for my joints.

Things like ZMA would be what i would add next when i could be bothered. But i would see that as simply a mineral sup rather then a test booster. I think Zinc is handy against developing cateracts aswell.

I hear alot about Rez-V (sp?) but at the moment i think im taking about as much as i could be bothered too…

Long term health over muscles anyday.

33

Quick question to end this thread, but is it ok to mix creatine, whey protein, and milk together in a shaker?

Thanks.

34

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:

Don’t you design supplements?[/quote]

I have designed supplements in the past, and introduced a few to the industry, but nothing has ever resulted in financial gain for me.

So to the point you’re trying to make; the answer would be no.

35

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:

When I am not so obnoxious, I am actually pretty easy to agree with. That I come so differently online than I am offline is something I’m working on![/quote]

lol I know exactly what you mean. It’s very difficult to interpret tone.

36

I went into GNC to get some creatine, and I read David Barr’s articles about creatine, but this guy that works there basically said creatine will make you have a lot of water retention/bloating. You guys are suggesting creatine monohydrate right? Do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?

37

I guess I’m confused with what people are trying to say. I always figured that supplementation was a part of a well-rounded overall regimen. While maybe not anywhere near as important as diet or training (or even rest), supplementation seems to be responsible for more than we might give it credit for.

Just the mental aspect of supplementation has impact that is very hard to quantify.

38
  1. Beef
  2. Chicken
  3. Tuna / Eggs & Egg whites / Salmon, fresh vegies etc etc.

Then…

  1. Whey protein
  2. Creatine
  3. Multi-vitamin (take 2, they are dosed for inactive old giesers)

These are CHEAP, CHEAP. You don’t have to spend an arm and a leg to get quality products. BTW, all creatines are created equal (IMHO and in your muscles’ opinion).

Everything after this I think is just “for fun”. Don’t get me wrong, I think it is interesting to learn about other products and give them a run, and may be very effective, but I would skip it if you are on a tight budget in order to buy more beef. Here is what I am using right now or in the recent past…

BCAA’s, Glutamine, Tribulus, CLA, HOT-ROX, Carbolin 19, Fish Oil / Flaxseed Oil

Also: Ibuprofen as needed.

Things not worth the $$ (IMHO):
Anything with a “Special 4-Page Ad” in one of the infamous muscle magazines, anything labeled “nitric oxide” (except viagra and the like, you get crazy pumps in the gym), most anything legal that a 300lb man with no bodyfat endorses.

39

[quote]blackmalice wrote:
I went into GNC to get some creatine, and I read David Barr’s articles about creatine, but this guy that works there basically said creatine will make you have a lot of water retention/bloating. You guys are suggesting creatine monohydrate right? Do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?[/quote]

You will put on a couple pounds of water weight when you begin using creatine, but you will NOT feel or look bloated. If you will be exercising in the heat for prolonged periods of time you will also need to be drinking more water (and you will be a little more thirsty at first).

No big deal.

Your muscles already are full of creatine, you’re just adding a bit more. You will recover faster between sets and therefore can workout harder for a longer period of time, making each workout more effective at building strength.

So, Yes - the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

BTW, creatine _______ (fill in the blank ie. monohydrate, whatever) all works about the same, IMO. Take it with some carbs for better uptake into the muscles (due to insulin).