Excellent posts. Do you get the feeling that we are looking at the tip of the iceberg?[/quote]
absolutely
[quote]
It’s fascinating to read how kamel delineated each of the weapons systems and their disclosure/non-disclosure to the inspectors.
This has already confirmed many of Bush’s main contentions (and the democrats’ before their power hunger overrode their common sense).
The sanctions were a failure, the inspections were a failure, and saddam was intent on preserving and safeguarding his WMD capacity. His advisors were confident they could reconstitute production quickly.[/quote]
I agree. Not only were the inspections and sanctions a failure, but the entire UN was a complete failure IMHO
I believe that these tapes are starting to show how truly stupid the whole “inspectors need more time” bullshit was.
[quote]
I believe these tapes will convince many reasonable people.[/quote]
The key word here being reasonable. I believe that the more evidence that is pulled from these tapes, the more incredible the spin will be from the left. As I said before, their political futures will entirely depend on this and they definately won’t just admit fault and apoligize that’s for sure.
It should be fairly entertaining though watching the dems go absolutely crazy over this. I’m fairly sure Dean’s head could actually explode. That’d be pretty cool.
[quote]
However, I’m not satisfied, yet. I want some evidence that is so persuasive that we can convince the farthest left loons.
I’ll be watcing this story closely.
JeffR[/quote]
I too would like to see, and I believe we will, more “smoking gun evidence”.
irish, I don’t want to go off tangents, here. This thread is devoted to the new saddam tapes.
However, I’ll use your little talking points to illustrate just how devastating these tapes are to your side. These tapes are showing quite clearly that saddam was not going to be contained. The “containment” as you call it, was at best a temporizing measure. Bribery and subversion galore.
Remember when your pal scott “I’ll kick your ass if you disagree with me” ritter was screaming, “They were all destroyed in 1995?”
Wrong.
Another of your talking points seems to indicate that saddam would not use wmd on us. To trust that saddam wouldn’t use wmd on us because we might “beat him up,” is to forget that he tried to assassinate George H.W. Bush and spent most of the 1990’s firing on our planes.
Hell, even billy “it’s only a blowjob, right?” clinton fired on him.
Like I indicated, most reasonable people (aka not you) will be convinced by the content of the information already released.
I’m greedy.
I want the lefty loons (you) to receive such an overwhelming store of incontrovertible evidence, that you say, “All right, maybe W. was right on this one (even though I hate him).”
Therefore, let’s keep ourselves informed as to the rest of the contents of the 35,000 boxes of material.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
irish, I don’t want to go off tangents, here. This thread is devoted to the new saddam tapes.
However, I’ll use your little talking points to illustrate just how devastating these tapes are to your side. These tapes are showing quite clearly that saddam was not going to be contained. The “containment” as you call it, was at best a temporizing measure. Bribery and subversion galore.
Remember when your pal scott “I’ll kick your ass if you disagree with me” ritter was screaming, “They were all destroyed in 1995?”
Wrong.
Another of your talking points seems to indicate that saddam would not use wmd on us. To trust that saddam wouldn’t use wmd on us because we might “beat him up,” is to forget that he tried to assassinate George H.W. Bush and spent most of the 1990’s firing on our planes.
Hell, even billy “it’s only a blowjob, right?” clinton fired on him.
Like I indicated, most reasonable people (aka not you) will be convinced by the content of the information already released.
I’m greedy.
I want the lefty loons (you) to receive such an overwhelming store of incontrovertible evidence, that you say, “All right, maybe W. was right on this one (even though I hate him).”
Therefore, let’s keep ourselves informed as to the rest of the contents of the 35,000 boxes of material.
JeffR
[/quote]
I don’t know what is so hard to understand here. I understand that he may have had them. Lots of countries do, some that are even more fucked up and threatening than Iraq.
You can screech all you want about these things. Doesn’t change the fact of what I said. If we find out he had WMD, it doesn’t make the war any more right in my eyes.
Saddam Tapes Tainted by Cherney Foundation
Since news is now considered entertainment, we are expected to check our disbelief and suspicion at the door. However, there is one small troublesome aspect to the Saddam tapes–they were released to the public by the International Intelligence Summit, described “as a nonpartisan, nonprofit forum that promotes an exchange of ideas among members of the international intelligence community… The summit’s main sponsor is the Michael Cherney Fund, whose Web site describes the fund’s main objective as ‘helping realize the intellectual potential of the post-Soviet emigres to Israel.’”
So tainted is the “Israeli philanthropist” Cherney, even staunch Straussian neocons are backing away from him. “In the last week both John Deutch and James Woolsey abruptly left their positions at Intelligence Summit, according to its president, John Loftus, who said their departure is part of a campaign by the directorate of national intelligence to punish him for releasing the recordings,” reports the New York Sun. "The reason both men gave for their resignations was new information they received regarding one of the summit’s biggest donors, Michael Cherney, an Israeli citizen who has been denied a visa to enter America because of his alleged ties to the Russian mafia… The Russian businessman immigrated to Israel in 1995 after allegations in his native country swirled that he was involved with assassinations and other criminal enterprises…
In short, the alleged Saddam tapes, supposedly revealing how Hussein attempted to hide his desire to kick start a weapons of mass destruction program (and thus lending credence to the war crimes of the Straussian neocons), are tainted by the criminal background of “one of the summit’s biggest donors, Michael Cherney,” obviously an Israeli agent proffering dubious goods even hang tough Straussian neocons back away from, smelling a rat.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote: Saddam Tapes Tainted by Cherney Foundation
Since news is now considered entertainment, we are expected to check our disbelief and suspicion at the door. However, there is one small troublesome aspect to the Saddam tapes–they were released to the public by the International Intelligence Summit, described “as a nonpartisan, nonprofit forum that promotes an exchange of ideas among members of the international intelligence community… The summit’s main sponsor is the Michael Cherney Fund, whose Web site describes the fund’s main objective as ‘helping realize the intellectual potential of the post-Soviet emigres to Israel.’”
So tainted is the “Israeli philanthropist” Cherney, even staunch Straussian neocons are backing away from him. “In the last week both John Deutch and James Woolsey abruptly left their positions at Intelligence Summit, according to its president, John Loftus, who said their departure is part of a campaign by the directorate of national intelligence to punish him for releasing the recordings,” reports the New York Sun. "The reason both men gave for their resignations was new information they received regarding one of the summit’s biggest donors, Michael Cherney, an Israeli citizen who has been denied a visa to enter America because of his alleged ties to the Russian mafia… The Russian businessman immigrated to Israel in 1995 after allegations in his native country swirled that he was involved with assassinations and other criminal enterprises…
In short, the alleged Saddam tapes, supposedly revealing how Hussein attempted to hide his desire to kick start a weapons of mass destruction program (and thus lending credence to the war crimes of the Straussian neocons), are tainted by the criminal background of “one of the summit’s biggest donors, Michael Cherney,” obviously an Israeli agent proffering dubious goods even hang tough Straussian neocons back away from, smelling a rat.
“Don’t question JTF on that until JeffR comes out and admits that he doesn’t lift either”
This thread is about saddam’s tapes. I would appreciate keeping on task.
If I allowed myself to comment that today is speed squat day. Then, I would have to tell you that it amuses me to think that I’ll be going off the low box, with speed, using more weight than you could roll across the floor. Finally, I’d have to comment that using the fat bar for curls has increased my grip strength to the point where I can shrug heavy without using a mixed grip.
However, I’m not going to allow this thread to be hijacked.
Thanks. Unfortunately for you, I included the House Intelligence has already verified the authenticity of the tapes.
However, I’m still waiting to hear from you what really happened in Roswell.
JeffR[/quote]
Just like the bin Laden tapes are “authentic”. Even if they are, it’s merely being pointed out the source looks extremely suspicious…
When Seeing and Hearing Isn’t Believing
By William M. Arkin
Monday, Feb. 1, 1999
“Gentlemen! We have called you together to inform you that we are going to overthrow the United States government.” So begins a statement being delivered by Gen. Carl W. Steiner, former Commander-in-chief, U.S. Special Operations Command.
At least the voice sounds amazingly like him.
But it is not Steiner. It is the result of voice “morphing” technology developed at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.
By taking just a 10-minute digital recording of Steiner’s voice, scientist George Papcun is able, in near real time, to clone speech patterns and develop an accurate facsimile. Steiner was so impressed, he asked for a copy of the tape.
Steiner was hardly the first or last victim to be spoofed by Papcun’s team members. To refine their method, they took various high quality recordings of generals and experimented with creating fake statements. One of the most memorable is Colin Powell stating “I am being treated well by my captors.”
“They chose to have him say something he would never otherwise have said,” chuckled one of Papcun’s colleagues.
A Box of Chocolates is Like War
Most Americans were introduced to the tricks of the digital age in the movie Forrest Gump, when the character played by Tom Hanks appeared to shake hands with President Kennedy.
For Hollywood, it is special effects. For covert operators in the U.S. military and intelligence agencies, it is a weapon of the future.
“Once you can take any kind of information and reduce it into ones and zeros, you can do some pretty interesting things,” says Daniel T. Kuehl, chairman of the Information Operations department of the National Defense University in Washington, the military’s school for information warfare.
PSYOPS seeks to exploit human vulnerabilities in enemy governments, militaries and populations.
Digital morphing - voice, video, and photo - has come of age, available for use in psychological operations. PSYOPS, as the military calls it, seek to exploit human vulnerabilities in enemy governments, militaries and populations to pursue national and battlefield objectives.
To some, PSYOPS is a backwater military discipline of leaflet dropping and radio propaganda. To a growing group of information war technologists, it is the nexus of fantasy and reality. Being able to manufacture convincing audio or video, they say, might be the difference in a successful military operation or coup.
Allah on the Holodeck
Pentagon planners started to discuss digital morphing after Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Covert operators kicked around the idea of creating a computer-faked videotape of Saddam Hussein crying or showing other such manly weaknesses, or in some sexually compromising situation. The nascent plan was for the tapes to be flooded into Iraq and the Arab world.
Voice-morphing? Fake video? Holographic projection? They sound more like Mission Impossible and Star Trek gimmicks than weapons. Yet for each, there are corresponding and growing research efforts as the technologies improve and offensive information warfare expands.
Whereas early voice morphing required cutting and pasting speech to put letters or words together to make a composite, Papcun’s software developed at Los Alamos can far more accurately replicate the way one actually speaks. Eliminated are the robotic intonations. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/arkin020199.htm
Of course it’s perfectly logical Saddam would record every conversation about his illegal weapons programs for posterity…
Just like an Arab hijacker “accidently” leaves his Koran at a strip club just before a suicide mission… ; )
Nice try with the Roswell thing… in case you haven’t noticed, I’M the skeptic here.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
JTF, I just saw a show on A&E about neonazi losers in Alabama.
You spout the same bullshit they do.
[/quote]
Yeah I saw that too. Who could have imagined someone potentially using that to equate criticism of Israel with skinheads… and would someone be gullible enough to even fall for it?
Longer than you’ve been alive I’m sure. Do you even live in America?
Thanks. Unfortunately for you, I included the House Intelligence has already verified the authenticity of the tapes.
However, I’m still waiting to hear from you what really happened in Roswell.
JeffR
Just like the bin Laden tapes are “authentic”. Even if they are, it’s merely being pointed out the source looks extremely suspicious…
When Seeing and Hearing Isn’t Believing
By William M. Arkin
Monday, Feb. 1, 1999
“Gentlemen! We have called you together to inform you that we are going to overthrow the United States government.” So begins a statement being delivered by Gen. Carl W. Steiner, former Commander-in-chief, U.S. Special Operations Command.
At least the voice sounds amazingly like him.
But it is not Steiner. It is the result of voice “morphing” technology developed at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.
By taking just a 10-minute digital recording of Steiner’s voice, scientist George Papcun is able, in near real time, to clone speech patterns and develop an accurate facsimile. Steiner was so impressed, he asked for a copy of the tape.
Steiner was hardly the first or last victim to be spoofed by Papcun’s team members. To refine their method, they took various high quality recordings of generals and experimented with creating fake statements. One of the most memorable is Colin Powell stating “I am being treated well by my captors.”
“They chose to have him say something he would never otherwise have said,” chuckled one of Papcun’s colleagues.
A Box of Chocolates is Like War
Most Americans were introduced to the tricks of the digital age in the movie Forrest Gump, when the character played by Tom Hanks appeared to shake hands with President Kennedy.
For Hollywood, it is special effects. For covert operators in the U.S. military and intelligence agencies, it is a weapon of the future.
“Once you can take any kind of information and reduce it into ones and zeros, you can do some pretty interesting things,” says Daniel T. Kuehl, chairman of the Information Operations department of the National Defense University in Washington, the military’s school for information warfare.
PSYOPS seeks to exploit human vulnerabilities in enemy governments, militaries and populations.
Digital morphing - voice, video, and photo - has come of age, available for use in psychological operations. PSYOPS, as the military calls it, seek to exploit human vulnerabilities in enemy governments, militaries and populations to pursue national and battlefield objectives.
To some, PSYOPS is a backwater military discipline of leaflet dropping and radio propaganda. To a growing group of information war technologists, it is the nexus of fantasy and reality. Being able to manufacture convincing audio or video, they say, might be the difference in a successful military operation or coup.
Allah on the Holodeck
Pentagon planners started to discuss digital morphing after Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Covert operators kicked around the idea of creating a computer-faked videotape of Saddam Hussein crying or showing other such manly weaknesses, or in some sexually compromising situation. The nascent plan was for the tapes to be flooded into Iraq and the Arab world.
Voice-morphing? Fake video? Holographic projection? They sound more like Mission Impossible and Star Trek gimmicks than weapons. Yet for each, there are corresponding and growing research efforts as the technologies improve and offensive information warfare expands.
Whereas early voice morphing required cutting and pasting speech to put letters or words together to make a composite, Papcun’s software developed at Los Alamos can far more accurately replicate the way one actually speaks. Eliminated are the robotic intonations. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/arkin020199.htm
Of course it’s perfectly logical Saddam would record every conversation about his illegal weapons programs for posterity…
Just like an Arab hijacker “accidently” leaves his Koran at a strip club just before a suicide mission… ; )
Nice try with the Roswell thing… in case you haven’t noticed, I’M the skeptic here.
[/quote]
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
More Jew conspiracy theories.
Sweet.
Said the fireman who thinks 3 steel framed and reinforced concrete skyscrapers disintegrated into dust because of localized fires…[/quote]
Hey JTF,
I’ve already posted why I believe the towers collapsed, and it was backed up by theories put togrther and deemed plausable by MIT professors. You’re probably a smart guy but my money is on the MIT professors.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
JTF, I just saw a show on A&E about neonazi losers in Alabama.
You spout the same bullshit they do.
Yeah I saw that too. Who could have imagined someone potentially using that to equate criticism of Israel with skinheads… and would someone be gullible enough to even fall for it?
Do you even lift weights?
Longer than you’ve been alive I’m sure. Do you even live in America?
[/quote]
Get a grip you lunatic. I am normally fairly tolerant but your anti-semitic agenda is as obvious as it is digusting.
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
More Jew conspiracy theories.
Sweet.
Said the fireman who thinks 3 steel framed and reinforced concrete skyscrapers disintegrated into dust because of localized fires…
Hey JTF,
I’ve already posted why I believe the towers collapsed, and it was backed up by theories put togrther and deemed plausable by MIT professors. You’re probably a smart guy but my money is on the MIT professors.
Sorry dude, but nice try.
[/quote]
Without hijacking Jeffy’s thread, let’s just say a theory that conveniently ignores crucial structural members to make the buildings appear weaker than they really were is nothing short of deliberate deception.
And how does gravity and friction turn 400,000 cubic yards of steel reinforced concrete to dust I wonder?
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
More Jew conspiracy theories.
Sweet.
Said the fireman who thinks 3 steel framed and reinforced concrete skyscrapers disintegrated into dust because of localized fires…
Hey JTF,
I’ve already posted why I believe the towers collapsed, and it was backed up by theories put togrther and deemed plausable by MIT professors. You’re probably a smart guy but my money is on the MIT professors.
Sorry dude, but nice try.
Without hijacking Jeffy’s thread, let’s just say a theory that conveniently ignores crucial structural members to make the buildings appear weaker than they really were is nothing short of deliberate deception.
And how does gravity and friction turn 400,000 cubic yards of steel reinforced concrete to dust I wonder?