Can you provide an example?
Even the Jehovah’s Witnesses I grew up with stood for the National Anthem. They certainly didn’t do anything to draw attention from themselves. Indeed, they seem to have a keen understanding of the point I’m making in this thread.
You didn’t answer the question.
And I would take a kneeler’s sincerity over a JW’s insincerity. At least the kneeler believes in the values that the flag represents.
I just think that we can’t take a black and white view of things. Any protest would be an exercise in free speech but we also have to consider what is being protested. If someone knelt because he wanted child porn to be legal I don’t think we could say that is the same as someone kneeling because of racial injustice. In other words, you might not like either display of disrespect but I would think that of the two people you would respect the one who kneels for a more just cause the better person. The idea that a football player who kneels is no different and no better than someone kneeling because they want a statue to remain standing on public land is silly to me. Sure, some people will be hypocrites in how they view the exercise of free speech but not everyone. I would argue that those hypocrites are hypocrites when it comes to many aspects of life.
What if a vet took a knee to protest the nation’s lack of response to the number of soldiers and vets who commit suicide every day? Would he be a disrespectful scumbag?
My example was someone protesting because they feel their heritage, something that can be deeply personal is, under attack.
Not someone protesting that an illegal action, 99.99% of the world finds disgusting, is illegal…
The justness of the cause is in the eye of the beholder, though, is it not?
That isn’t what I said at all. But, you’re basically highlighting my point. You believe what Kaepernick is protesting is worth the protest while what the Southern is protesting isn’t (or at the very least less so). I’m simply saying that if you think protesting during the anthem is acceptable then you have to be willing to accept protests in all forms whether you agree with it or not. That is where I believe the hypocrisy comes from.
Not everyone, but a lot of them will be.
First of all, I doubt that would happen because it just doesn’t make any sense. However, In my opinion, yes it would be very disrespectful.
You don’t disrespect the men and women who have died to secure the freedoms represented by the flag to raise awareness for a cause. Whether I think that cause is justified or not is irrelevant (which in this case I think it’s a noble cause).
There’s a time and a place for everything.
But would you personally view a vet who protested for that reason as being no different than someone who was waving a Confederate flag or making a Nazi salute?
Because it seems like some are saying that any act of protest is disrespectful and all protesters are equally disrespectful. I don’t believe that taking a knee for racial injustice is just as disrespectful as giving the flag a Nazi salute.
And yes, I would have no choice but to accept all acts of non-violent protest provided they are protected under the 1st Amendment. Meaning I would also accept if an NFL team disciplined a player for his behavior since it isn’t protected. That doesn’t mean I have to like either scenario but I don’t demand that protesters or NFL teams consider my personal feelings. It also doesn’t mean that I won’t personally judge a protester based on how and what he is protesting.
I never heard of that being a thing, so I asked for an example. Otherwise you just get to make it up as we go along. That is how the conversation ends up here, talking about things that aren’t really happening.
Can you name a religion and a reason why it would forbid standing during the anthem? I’ve never heard of that or observed it.
No, they’re different. I’m not really sure where this idea came from that I would view the purpose of any protest as the same? I mean, we’re splitting hairs here it’s not like I have a “disrespect scale” or something and it’s not like a veteran has taken a knee that I’m aware of. If it happens, remind me and I’ll address it then.
Yes, any act during the anthem is disrespectful imo and all protesters during this time are equally disrespectful to the men and women of the armed forces and America in general.
That doesn’t mean what they’re protesting does or doesn’t have merit. That doesn’t mean their causes are equal. That doesn’t mean they’re all scumbags. It’s just an inappropriate and disrespectful time for your protest.
You could pick literally any other time to protest. Why didn’t Kaepernick take a knee on the very first offensive play of each game? Why didn’t he refuse to field questions after the game as a form of protest? Instead, he takes a knee during the anthem, wears socks depicting police officers as pigs, and wears Fidel Castro and Black Panther T-shirts to press conferences while talking about equality.
First off, people are talking in absolutes. You might find kneeling for the anthem disrespectful but that doesn’t mean it is. I think we can make up hypothetical situations if we are going to talk as though belief and feelings are fact. However, I will mention two names: Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (Muslim) who refused to stand and Sam Perkins (JW) who only stood because he didn’t want to get fined.
Okay, so we’re playing the hypothetical game. In that case, Abdul-Rauf might find someone standing during prayer to be disrespectful but that doesn’t mean it is. Right? It should be totally fine for me to roll up on some guys like this and stand right in the middle of them. Who are they to tell me what that means? Maybe I want to draw attention to something I think is important, like myself.
Oh, so you don’t actually have examples. Okay… It would seem like those are personal choices, or do you think everyone else who follows those religions is risking damnation (or equivalent) by standing for the anthem?
This is too ironic:
If Westboro stopped their other, heinous actions in favor behaving like Kaepernick, that would be a huge improvement. But I doubt that will happen.
Why is America great? Because it’s supposed to be the exact opposite of this.
Kneeling to protest police brutality…
Might be instructive to research historical data going back to the 50s or 60s. In the same manner that everyone screams how unsafe it is today, when in 1960 there were more murders with only 50-60% of the population in the US.
I think a nut shell this whole things just the polite way racist whites are asking blacks to sit down. They cant protest peacefully cant protest in streets i guess just protest at home under the blankets with lights off. Theres not a single black or brown person I know that doesnt fear there friends fam or kids being shot harrassed or arrested needlessly. Despite all these dumb coments its a real thing.
“The officers were three times less likely to shoot unarmed black suspects than unarmed white suspects and took significantly longer to decide to shoot armed black suspects than armed white suspects.”-the article
Obvious racism. White “people” view African Americans as being three times more unworthy of even a $.50 bullet than other white people. So determined not to “waste” money on African Americans. It’s incredible that we’re still fighting this battle.
And that’s fair. I think the lingering effects are probably less pervasive than yourself (there are other primary sources of difficulty), but I want to respect people that hold that position; there are many smart people who do.
Stop and frisk is an abomination, no question. Personally I believe that one has to ask the question of WHY a minority is “disproportionately targeted” as a policy outcome however: is it because the vast majority of crime is in a densely populated area and minorities make up a large proportion of those living there? OR is it because there is active targeting going on?
One is a function of mathematics and statistics, and is not truly disproportionately affecting them, it is simply a description of the atate of a high crime area…its simply an artifact of the math at play with population and crime in an area. The other is targeting and must be condemned.
Again–if stop and frisk is bad, it’s bad for everyone’s rights not just the minority’s. I wish people would stop being primarily utilitarian in their thinking about rights, because what’s good for the goose is later good for the gander, be it a change in political power or a change in demographics or cultural mores. Therefore I see utilitarian perspective as useless, and part of the idea of “disproportionate affect” as moot–it comes from a fundamentally flawed outlook on how rights actually should be viewed and policy implemented. Good policy should not create that problem, and on the other hand people should understand that mathematics is not a source of disproportionate trouble.
Probably clear as mud, but I just got out of a 9 hour conference so I’m mentally shot.
Jesus dude, if you think half the country are “racist whites” no wonder there cant be a productive conversation…
Not sure how much the country is racist… But not letting people have a voice about a race issue seems racist. Also super hypocritical considering the guy that is getting eveyone all rowled up and missing the point…is a Russian pawn
Tbh in a lot of areas it’s both. Few of my high school friends went on to the cop/emt/firefighter route and theyll openly admit AAs are targeted in my city and the surrounding suburbs. To them, it’s just math. To the people they rough up and end up guessing wrong, it’s a complete violation of rights
