If I had taken your advice, I would have never entered any Bodybuilding contest. Good job at presenting perfection as the enemy of the good. And I thought I was a pessimist.
5’9 is not tall for body building, it’s slightly shorter than average which is about right for the O winners historically.
@Isaiah63 @LGN I missed the enhanced part so my comment on 170-180 is moot. That would be big for a natural for sure IMO but enhancement can blow that out the window for sure.
@RT_Nomad I agree with what yoir angling. There is no “start here” or don’t compete. Anybody can compete with proper prep and not completely look foolish. I think if the OP has his heart in it, hire a coach and go for it!
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Perhaps you missed the part where I made a recommendation to cut, do a proper off-season and then do a show. I also said he can do a show anytime. As someone who is currently getting ready for a show and keeping up with the sport I think it’s important to give people a realistic, not pessimistic, assessment.
I would prefer to see someone prepared with realistic expectations and consider the advice I gave so that their first show will be more likely to be a good experience rather than a negative one. In my opinion, they are more likely to stick with it and continue to improve.
And yes, 5’ 9” is tall for bodybuilders meaning you have to be at least a light heavy or heavy to have any chance of being competitive. I’m 5’5” and I’ve stood next to many of them in person. I know several guys closer to the OP’s height just competing in state level shows for years who have never come close to winning their class and they are close to capping those weight classes. To put it in perspective, a light heavy should be shooting to meet the cap of 198.25lbs at real stage leanness. The OP would be at least 20-30 pounds under that and would be competing against someone like me who will be capping my weight class at 176.25lbs and 4” shorter. And if he gets truly lean from his condition he will still look significantly less muscular than I will. This is the reality of bodybuilding the contest is about muscularity. I also think @blshaw your comment simply proves my point. Olympia and professional level competitors at this height are massive.
If you don’t like my perspective that’s fine.
I’d ask the op how many of these people giving you recommendations on a random chat forum have been to a bodybuilding in the recent past and competed as well? This thread is giving you recommendations off of 2 pictures which show only a small part of your upper body and practically no actionable information other than that. You would be much better off hiring a coach with current experience in this area and let them help you make the decision. Again, before anyone jumps on me, this is just a recommendation. Take it for what it’s worth and good luck.
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I wasn’t going in that direction at all regarding size. Just height. Historically the O winner is 5’8-5’9 but that doesn’t account for the multiple year winners which, on average, were taller which would skew this even higher. He’s a beginner so we can’t compare that size physique to his of course.
I wouldn’t dare, I’m not a competitor so your insight is far more valuable than mine. What you said above about the weight classes / caps makes a lot of sense.
Still, I think the OP could and should make a run at it with the assist of a coach. Who cares if he places dead last in his first comp. Consider it a learning experience and stepping stone right?
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If the person has a fragile ego, this can be crippling. I came in dead last in my first competition, but that was just a motivator to assess and work that much harder. Many people need only positive reinforcement to stay motivated. I was entering about three contests a year for three years before I got a 4th place trophy next year.
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So what? Before Clenbuterol, the Overall winners in amateur contests came predominately from the Light-heavyweight Class (once weight classes had become common for contests.)
OP can and should put on more muscle. It takes time. It took me eleven years to have enough muscle to allow me to fill out my 6’0" height, and I competed nine of those years, competing about three times a year, every year. And, yes, I considered myself tall for a Bodybuilder. My “rule” was if I was competing against a person 5’11", I needed to be 10lbs heavier than him to look as large. I used 10lbs per inch as gauge when around 6’ tall.
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Yes, but would a person with a fragile ego truly succeed at anything in life? I can’t base all my opinions on people with fragile ego or other self-esteem issues. From what I see daily, it appears that most people have much higher opinion of themselves than a lower one on average.
I have to agree with this statement. No disrespect to the OP, but 5’9 is, for most bodybuilders, near the upper end of average height. Even at this height, there are many national level competitors who are WELL north of 200-220 lbs. I am 5’11 and I competed in the super heavies, my dieted down stage weight near the end of my competitive career was usually in the upper 240s/to mid 250s. Now, I had to be that heavy because the guys I competed against, while many of them shorter, were well over 200lbs. And as @RT_Nomad said, when you’re taller, you had to be heavier to look as big/thick as the shorter guys. There are pros/cons to being short vs. being tall, but while it’s often difficult for guys my height or above to get massive legs for instance, they don’t usually ever hit that point where they look like a big fire hydrant like some of the shorter guys who get so big they become a big block with no long lines, no noticeable shoulder to waist taper.
Regarding the OP, to be completely honest and not a personal attack, but from viewing your pictures I really couldn’t tell you were even taking AAS. Normally one would have massive traps, capped delts, much more vascularity, etc. IN other words, I would expect much more visible thick, dense muscularity on a physique. As far as your bodyfat, i also would estimate in the upper teens as well. And let me just get you prepared, for your first show, when you diet down, you will lose much more overall weight than you EVER thought you would! I remember that happening for my first show and i was around your bodyfat when i started my diet. It is a real rude awakening when you discover how much BF you are truly carrying, and how much weight you have to lose, to get down to the low single digits so you can present your best physique onstage.
My honest, most straightforward advice would be to keep training hard and heavy with weights for a few more years, at least 2-3, eating a lot, adding size, maybe take a closer look at your AAS protocol, and focus solely on this and not Rugby. You should try to get your weight up in the 220s…but not be hugely fat., that way you can diet down to near 200-205 perhaps. And you can keep growing from there. There are many guys in the Heavyweight and even super heavyweight class at 5’9, so you can still be a big dude at that height. At your current state I fear you would diet down to the 160s most likely. Just my .02 cents.
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Then, didn’t you find that every subsequent fat loss, resulted in less muscle loss to reach the lower single digit percent body fat numbers?
It is my position that a new competitor should be informed that getting in stage shape gets more efficient with repetition. It always feels painful, but the reward exceeds previous attempts.
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Some really good information here guys thanks everyone. Lots of varying views.
To be honest, what’s really prompted this is I have seen some serious gains in mass and definition since I locked into a bodybuilding split since last November. And yes, appreciate that is not long at all is it to be considering competing, but remember I’ve been building a base through rugby for 12+ years. The weathers been that bad here rugby training and games are cancelled most weeks, so to take advantage of the time I’ve upped the gym to five days a week with a push, pull, legs, upper and lower (+ arms) split and I’m loving it. And I’m mega happy with the results, even after such a short amount of time (no doubt helped with AAS). So I think I’m going to see out this season, and really lock in to a clean 12 month bulk and split, focussed around building my physique and I should think if results keep going the way they are I’ll be a much stronger position to be entering comps over the summer.
I’m naturally competitive, so perhaps I’m being a bit too eager to replace rugby with another form of competition. But being competitive, I don’t want to do it in half measures and come dead last even if it is my first time.
Going to play the long game! And if anything else, the gym keeps me sane and keeps the monsters in ya head at bay!
thanks for everyone’s input, super appreciated and gave me plenty to think about. Respect to RT Nomad as well, balanced but professional and fair opinion that is respectful to the novices of the world like me trying to get started in an otherwise daunting arena.
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@RT_Nomad You sir are 100% correct! For my very first competition, I did end up losing a startling amount of fat and thus, overall bodyweight (rereading that, it sounds funny but I mean I thought I was starting off at like 9-10%BF in my mind, in reality I was prob closer to 18-19%). I imagine my experience is NOT uncommon, as I think for the average person who wants to do a show, they really don’t realize the amount of bodyfat they carry, nor the amount of weight they will need to lose in order to be in stage-shape (low single digit bodyfat %).
But yes, after my first show, for all my subsequent shows I didn’t ever have to diet more than 10-12 weeks (I did 16 weeks for my first show) because A) I never got fat in my offseason and B) once you lose all that bodyfat for your first show, and unless you don’t get careless afterwards, you don’t have to lose that much weight for your future shows.
Man, I can still remember it like it was yesterday….I thought I was so BIG and that it was all muscle, but after I dieted down and was finally lean enough for the stage, I was so wrong on how heavy I ended up being for I had severely underestimated the amount of bodyfat I had. I mean, in my mind, I didn’t have a big gut or anything like that, so how could I be carrying that much fat? But you learn that the human body has all sorts of fat, spread out all over, and you learn that you have to get really low bodyfat to look like the guys you always looked at in the magazines. Then you truly learn what those guys have to endure to display that much definition, vascularity, and striations.
And you are correct again @RT_Nomad , with each show you diet down for, your body becomes better at losing the bodyfat over and over, like it learns what it needs to do. The trick is, again, to NOT get massively fat and bloated in the offseason, telling everybody that “I’m bulking man”, while getting in the 20+% BF range. It just makes the diet longer, more painful, and it’s really not giving you extra muscle. Guys just like to get lazy and fat and eat whatever in the offseason.
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I think this is a great plan. I wish you the best on this journey and continued progress as you get more dialed-in. This is the kind of attitude and planning that will get you far and I look forward to your progress. Just think how much progress you can make in 12 more months to set yourself up for success!
I don’t disagree at all with your point that it can be a stepping stone for some people. I understand where you’re coming from and appreciate your views. I just think it’s important for someone who has never committed to the serious undertaking of show prep to have objective opinions and not only to be hearing that they should go for it without hearing a realistic expectation of what to expect. A lot of people don’t even make it through their prep and drop out because, as @meastlake1 mentioned… they are not mentally prepared for the shock of the loss of size, the second thoughts and stress, and all of the things that really happen when you take on this sport. It is a commitment that is not like other sports. Time-consuming, expensive with show fees, purchasing posing trunks, hiring a coach, practicing posing when you are exhausted and hungry and cramping, and all so you can stand on a stage in underwear to literally be judged by judges and entire audience of people you don’t know. Anyone planning to actually do that needs to count the cost and be humble enough to accept objective and truthful criticism. It seems the OP has these qualities and I respect that. I hope that he does a show someday and does well.
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Well said, I agree but I will say, when you’ve really put in the work, stuck to your training, diet, posing practice, and you have objective people around you confirming you are ready….when you walk out on that stage, under those lights, and KNOW you brought your “A-game”, it’s an incredible, intoxicating feeling! Even better is when you you hear the audience react to your poses, or hear a random person (haha, NOT your partner/parent, etc) say “god! look at # whatever your number is, hear the applause, its awesome!
Naturally, when you win your weight class you’re on cloud 9, & if you then win the overall, well, you feel amazing too & you instantly forget how difficult the process was and the moment is one you never forget for the rest of your life. Now, if you are able to repeat that for several shows, or especially a national level show, well, you can see how some people can get hooked on the sport.
I can vividly remember each and every show I competed in and won. And yeah, I still have my $5 trophies somewhere, but its wasn’t ever about that, because this is a sport with no public glory or fanfare, but deep down you know what you were able to endure and accomplish, and no one can ever take that from you. I look back at all of my shows very fondly.
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Amen to that brother!
Did you happen to get a more positive reaction to any one pose, or poses during your individual posing routine? I consistently had a positive reaction to one pose (kneeling 3/4 back double biceps).
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I was very fortunate genetics-wise, as my strong points were most peoples’ weak points (and my weakness was most everyone’s strong points[arms])— but strongest were my back and my legs. It helped that before I began bodybuilding specifically, in my prior gym rat days I actually loved training back and legs. I did endless sets of deadlifts, rack pulls, bent over barbell rows/dumbbell rows & squats, hack squats, reverse hypers, etc. But I always admired Dorian’s physique and tried to duplicate his attention to back/legs.
When I would hit my rear lat spread, back double biceps poses those tended to get the most reaction. If I had to choose 1, it probably was whenever I turned my back towards the audience and I hit my rear lat spread…not to be braggadocious by my lats were very wide and thick, like a cobra head, and it looked pretty insane.
My arms, while I could get them big, never had the pretty baseball biceps head, nor the super detailed horse shoe-shaped triceps. If I had to compare my physique to someone (and trust me, I obviously was nowhere near his level) I would say Dorian’s physique would be most similar to mine. I had BIG calves, forearms too, like him. But I’m always quick to point out to people that my calves, while I trained them very hard and frequent, were mostly aided by good genetics/insertions. And my forearms the same, I never trained them, but I actually hated it because I had to do all sorts of trickery when training biceps to try and take them OUT of the lifts as they wanted to do all the work. They were often almost as big as up actual upper arms!
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I felt that both the front lat spread and back lat spread were my worst poses, hands down.
I would like to see a pic of your cobra spread, if you like. OP needs to see what stage ready looks like.
I’ll show mine (best pose) if you show yours. 
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Not gonna lie, I want to see both.
I’m most annoyed, I cannot seem to find my pictures online and they used to be there. I found this one from 2008 Nationals but alas it’s NOT my back.
And I can’t get this one other lone image to not be blurry:
I am a bit angry now, realizing that I did not take as many pictures myself as perhaps I should have. But I didn’t do online coaching, I was trained by a pro Bodybuilder who saw me and checked my condition in person. And I competed in the mid 2000’s to 2010, before cell phone cameras were like hollywood cameras now. I have some actual show pictures of myself around here somewhere, but I’m not tearing the place apart now.
Here is me today wearing a custom suit I just had made. Again, sorry no back but if I remember I might have my wife snap a pic, or I might look for the show pictures.
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