[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Nobody knows what is happening.
You mean you wish we didn’t know what was happening? Warming is definitely happening, and it is happening faster than at any prior time we can find out about.
Cruise lines are selling tickets with the line that if you haven’t seen Alaska yet, you definitely should before it melts completely.[/quote]
Warming has been happening since the 70’s. The earth cooled from the 30’s to the 70’s even while CO2 increased.
Our data points are extremely limited so it is difficult to compare to historical trends.
Antarctica is getting cooler although the Antarctic Peninsula has been warming. Shouldn’t the continent of Antarctica be warming too?
Anyone that claims to understand the mechanism of climate change is bullshitting to get a research grant.
CO2 induced global warming may be real, or the current warming trend may be natural. If it is real I have not yet seen a realistic proposal that would do anything about it. Kyoto treaty is a joke.
Keep researching, don’t panic. Don’t commute in a Hummer.
Regarding the cruise lines, that is called marketing.
[quote]vroom wrote:
For all you Bushies, your fearless leader had this to say while at the G8:
“I believe that greenhouse gases are creating a problem, a long-term problem that we have got to deal with,” Bush said.
So, I guess you may want to modify which talking points you sputter in response to this topic. However, it just so happens that Bush doesn’t want to bother dealing with this issue right now.[/quote]
Neither did Clinton. He paid lip service to the Kyoto treaty and did nothing to reduce CO2 emissions.
Don’t mix politics and science. It is bad as mixing religion and science.
Regarding the cruise lines, that is called marketing.[/quote]
LOL so go check out the Mendenhall glacier, and how it’s changed in the last five years. The cruise lines are not going to get sued over truth in advertising. Yep, warming has been going on a while, which is why there is strong suspicion humans have something to do with it. But the rate of warming in the last ten years is truly unprecedented.
Zap, you realize you have really nothing to offer here, except your claims of disbelief.
I don’t suppose you have anything that actually refutes some of the scientific studies?
Also, if you complain Clinton did nothing, what the hell does that prove? This isn’t a Clinton vs Bush issue. They both realize that business will not vote for them if they make the expensive but correct choice to do something about greenhouse gases.
You would do well to take your own advice and not mix science with politics. You are talking politics buddy, pure politics.
Regarding the cruise lines, that is called marketing.
LOL so go check out the Mendenhall glacier, and how it’s changed in the last five years. The cruise lines are not going to get sued over truth in advertising. Yep, warming has been going on a while, which is why there is strong suspicion humans have something to do with it. But the rate of warming in the last ten years is truly unprecedented.[/quote]
I hope you’re not suggesting one glacier is representative of an overall warming trend. Zap’s right, Antartica has actually cooled in the last 30 years, and in the 70s they were worried we were headed for another ice age.
I’m not arguing there is no global warming, even the high profile contrarians on the subject admit that. I’m only suggesting that the warming that is occurring is being blown up by the media and politicians, who have repeatedly printed misinformed scare stories, just like the one you brought up. ‘This one glacier is melting, so obviously it’s global warming’s fault.’ We both know that’s not necessarily true.
Over the last century the average temperature around the globe has warmed 0.6 degrees Celsius. Significant, but nothing to fly into a mad panic about. Could it spiral out of control and start warming at a much faster rate? Yes, but it’s extremely unlikely.
Regarding the cruise lines, that is called marketing.
LOL so go check out the Mendenhall glacier, and how it’s changed in the last five years. The cruise lines are not going to get sued over truth in advertising. Yep, warming has been going on a while, which is why there is strong suspicion humans have something to do with it. But the rate of warming in the last ten years is truly unprecedented.[/quote]
All valid points. Yet glaciers in Iceland are advancing and the ice is getting thicker in Antartica (except the peninsula). There are theories as to why. Some are credible, some seem to be a reach.
This is a subject worth study. I am not prepared to take drastic action yet.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Zap, you realize you have really nothing to offer here, except your claims of disbelief.
I don’t suppose you have anything that actually refutes some of the scientific studies?
Also, if you complain Clinton did nothing, what the hell does that prove? This isn’t a Clinton vs Bush issue. They both realize that business will not vote for them if they make the expensive but correct choice to do something about greenhouse gases.
You would do well to take your own advice and not mix science with politics. You are talking politics buddy, pure politics.[/quote]
vroom, you are talking out your ass. I have presented a number of items that conflict quite clearly with the theory of CO2 induced global warming.
I have also mentioned possible explainations for the conflicts.
I have said over and over again that perhaps CO2 induced global warming is real. I have said we shouldn’t act rashly.
I have stated the Kyoto treaty was horribly flawed.
You have presented nothing but doom and gloom. It makes me wonder if you know anything about the subject or have actually read my posts.
You mentioned Bush has not done anything yet. I stated that Clinton also did nothing to reduce CO2 emissions. Now you ask me why I brought Clinton into it? Why did you bring Bush into it?
I do not see how I am mixing politics and science, unfortunately the IPCC has been mixing politics and science and that is part of the problem.
[quote]Orbitalboner wrote:
… I’m only suggesting that the warming that is occurring is being blown up by the media and politicians, who have repeatedly printed misinformed scare stories, just like the one you brought up.
[quote]Orbitalboner wrote:
I hope you’re not suggesting one glacier is representative of an overall warming trend.
[/quote]
Goodness no. There are more all around Alaska that are getting the same treatment. The article in NYTimes indicated three or four right there close by the Mendenhall.
And let me tell you a trick with those warming figures. If you average over a long enough time base, it’s easier to drive the last five-10 years worth of data underwater.
This is a subject worth study. I am not prepared to take drastic action yet.
[/quote]
I think it is reasonable to expect instability first, and then uniform changes later. We are in phase one apparently.
I think I would like to find out more about temperature trends in the oceans.
I think the trees are an urgent matter. Stopping deforestation, I mean. We are probably talking a limited number of years of drastically increasing emissions, then something of a tail as world petroleum starts to fade from the stage. Of course this still leaves a helluva lot of coal.
Weaning ourselves off of petroleum basically kills two birds with one stone. Let’s get started.
This is a subject worth study. I am not prepared to take drastic action yet.
I think it is reasonable to expect instability first, and then uniform changes later. We are in phase one apparently.
I think I would like to find out more about temperature trends in the oceans.
I think the trees are an urgent matter. Stopping deforestation, I mean. We are probably talking a limited number of years of drastically increasing emissions, then something of a tail as world petroleum starts to fade from the stage. Of course this still leaves a helluva lot of coal.
Weaning ourselves off of petroleum basically kills two birds with one stone. Let’s get started.[/quote]
I agree with this. I hate to see people commuting in trucks, but I don’t know how big a percentage of oil is wasted in vehicles with poor fuel efficiency compared to our total oil use.
Deforestation is a tough issue. We know that slashing and burning the Amazon is a bad thing for the planet, yet the people doing it are just trying to feed themselves. I don’t know what a realistic alternative is for them.