[quote]maryjane wrote:
I believe things happen for a reason…[/quote]
I couldn’t agree with you more. Read William Cowper’s poem “God Moves in a Mysterious Way.”
[quote]sic wrote:
Do I think things are preordained by some type of unchangeable fate? No. If they were there would be no reason for free will to exist, and I firmly believe that I have the ability to direct my own life in whatever manner I chose.[/quote]
Exactly, and thanks for saying it better than I would have been able to.
And damn girl, what have you been doing to your back? Nice work!
Ok, I think some may have missed my point. I was referring to the crazy things that happen…like being late for work and avoiding a nasty accident.
Or not wanting to get on the internet and then finding that perfect pair of shoes. Maybe having an arguement and staying home, only to avoid a party being busted up by the cops. That sorta shit. Not the horrific crap like starvation, tumors, and death…thoughts?
[quote]maryjane wrote:
Ok, I think some may have missed my point. I was referring to the crazy things that happen…like being late for work and avoiding a nasty accident.
Or not wanting to get on the internet and then finding that perfect pair of shoes. Maybe having an arguement and staying home, only to avoid a party being busted up by the cops. That sorta shit. Not the horrific crap like starvation, tumors, and death…thoughts?[/quote]
I got your point and answered based on that so my answers will stay the same.
Basically, no I dont think things happen for a reason. I think that based on our decisions and attitudes we do things that have consequences. These consequences may be good or they may be bad but they happened because of us and who we are, not some greater reason.
I think that I feel that way as that is what I WANT to believe.
I do not want to believe that there there is anything (or anyone) other than myself controlling or affecting in any way what I do, how I feel or the things that happen to me. Whether that be jumping on the internet just in time to get some free Biotest supps or getting that perfect life changing job.
I think that is why I am also a very strong non-believer in karma (sorry ~karma~) and fate.
Anybody read the shory “The Fatalist” by Isaac Singer?
*short story
[quote]ballin wrote:
maryjane wrote:
I believe things happen for a reason…you?
no.
[/quote]
I don’t believe things happen for a predicated reason, but balla, you are still a fucking douchebag.
[quote]JPBear wrote:
Neebone wrote:
I’m sure those are dying of starvation in Africa have faith … shame its not doing them any good.
As I said before, don’t look at injustice or tragedy and conclude there is no God, or that He is not in control.
We see things from such a small human perspective. God is eternal and sees the end from the beginning. Also, humans were created to be eternal. God not only sees all the earthly consequences, but all the eternal consequences of each action.
The most important thing to remember is that it is not about us, it is about Him and His glory. And we cannot question that or complain about it because He is God and we are not. The book of Romans, chapter 9 explains God’s sovereignty very clearly (as does the whole Bible).
[/quote]
If he was serious about trying to kill himself he would have used a gun, car or jumped off of a bridge. Men seldom try to kill themselves with drugs if they are serious.
As for things happening for a reason and some divine being pulling the puppet strings of everyone according to some divine plan, walk into the NICU of a hospital and explain the reason/masterplan for what you find there.
[quote]maryjane wrote:
I believe things happen for a reason…you?[/quote]
what reason?
there is no meaning.
he will die someday.
what difference?
[quote]edgecrusher wrote:
maryjane wrote:
I believe things happen for a reason…
I couldn’t agree with you more. Read William Cowper’s poem “God Moves in a Mysterious Way.”
[/quote]
Even if god moves in mysterious ways, it doesn’t create meaning.
[quote]maryjane wrote:
Ok, I think some may have missed my point. I was referring to the crazy things that happen…like being late for work and avoiding a nasty accident.
Or not wanting to get on the internet and then finding that perfect pair of shoes. Maybe having an arguement and staying home, only to avoid a party being busted up by the cops. That sorta shit. Not the horrific crap like starvation, tumors, and death…thoughts?[/quote]
If there is “meaning” in the trivial happenings, then that same meaning must somehow exist in the horrific crap.
That was the point those people were making.
Same universe, same meaning in all acts.
You see?
There is no meaning. Not the kind of “meaning” you are describing when you use that word.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
Now, we are starting to talk about theodicy (mentioned on the post about the Book of Job).
So why do bad things happen to good people?
Rousseau had what I think is a quite reasonable answer: bad things happen because of human beings.
If we accept that there is any such thing as free will, constant divine intervention wouldn’t be hospitable to it.
In our natural state, human beings are happy; our powers are equal to our needs. But as we (freely) create a more complicated (and fragile) world, it is unreasonable to expect that God will insulate us from our own designs.
After the Lisbon disaster in 1755, philosophers began to freshly examine theodicy (a term coined by Leibniz for a concept known well before him). It’s much easier, it seems, to understand evil in free human beings; events such as earthquakes, floods, or other natural disasters (“acts of God”) are generally not directly attributable to human intervention. For many, this indicated that nature (and hence God) was inherently inhospitable to human efforts, or at least indifferent to them. Voltaire was especially outraged, and Candide is, to a great extent, a parody of the idea that there is some underlying benevolent force in the Universe.
Rousseau, in a letter to Voltaire, suggested that Lisbon was the result of human beings populating themselves in high concentrations in a particular area, in tall buildings that were susceptible to earthquake. God, as Rousseau pointed out, never commanded them to do so. In fact, according to Rousseau, He crafted us to be happy and blessed. We chose, instead, to create private property, families, and society. Human intellect, if not for the chains it imposes on us, ought to have been lauded as the greatest gift God could give us.
That we misuse it is unfortunate.[/quote]
Absofuckinglutely.