The Wall

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]vroom wrote:
ProfX, you are missing the point.

Any time a racist policy can be hidden within non-racist language, it’s seen as a win, because it is ultimately defensible.

Sort of like the concept of reverse discrimination.

So, if laws can target immigrants, but they can be worded in ways that don’t mention those groups in any way, because they have behaviors that can be targeted, then you have laws that are not written based on race.

Wink wink nudge nudge. Stop trying to upset the apple cart.[/quote]

However, I get labeled as seeing racism everywhere for not falling for the bullshit. This society is still largely fucked up. It is just hidden better with many little worker ants all too ready to make sure it keeps on living behind the scenes.

62

Also, to the people that have said that illeagal immigration takes american’s jobs away they may have a point. If unemployment levels go up in the future we may have to tighten up our borders but we are doing fine in this area for now as far as i know.

63

[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:
Also, to the people that have said that illeagal immigration takes american’s jobs away they may have a point. If unemployment levels go up in the future we may have to tighten up our borders but we are doing fine in this area for now as far as i know.[/quote]

I live in Phx Az. Not only is illegal Immigration taking American Jobs They are also bringing down the cost or if you will (Value) of labor and or goods. That is a good thing as a consumer, but being self employed and offering both goods and labor I personally am not happy with our present approach.

64

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I live in Phx Az. Not only is illegal Immigration taking American Jobs They are also bringing down the cost or if you will (Value) of labor and or goods. That is a good thing as a consumer, but being self employed and offering both goods and labor I personally am not happy with our present approach.
[/quote]

I know it sucks competing against illeagals i hear you on that, but im for bringing down the value of labor, because it ultimately is what makes the process of manufacturing the product to the the customer carrying it out to their car from walmart the most efficient pricewise , energywise and labor wise. You have to realize that if we use laws to protect labor over here, thats fine and dandy because companies will just move offshore to cheaper places. So i see this as just a product of globablization, not necessarily either a good or bad thing

65

[quote]hectorulises wrote:
This facist measure called “The Wall”, where have we seen this? I know I have.
Think the guettos, think east and west germany, think china.
Illegal aliens? That’s a pretty harsh term for someone who works twice as much for half the money he gets paid, a pretty harsh term for someone trying to feed his family, not buy him a sports car but feed his children, and I certainly believe that it is a hash term for a fellow human.
I am mexican.
I’ve been in the US, several times, fortunatly I’ve been in places like Disneyland and Universal Theme Park instead of a constructing site and I have my VISA(Unlimited, well 10 years an automatical reneuval).
I love your country, I wish mine was half like yours and some of the best people I’ve ever met are americans.
I have however many family in the US trying to make a living, just a couple of weeks ago my uncle and my aunt went there, they left their two children behind in the hopes of sending money. they are 18 and 11 years old.
If you make that wall, only god knows when will they see their parents again.
If you make that wall, only god know how many families will be destroyed, it will be in the hundreds of thousands.
I am not asking for your pitty, for your simpathy, let’s talk business. lose, and we will lose.
If not, I’'ll be seeing you next year in PhD in business I’ll be doing Berkeley, maybe I’ll make it through the wall.
Yours truly.
Eng Hector Ulises Carrillo Ramirez[/quote]

RJ you just got told.

I quoted the best parts from this: his name is great , why cant i have one w/ 5 words?

" If you make that wall, only god know how many families will be destroyed, it will be in the hundreds of thousands. "

Not quite the mexican version of TC but but he is stirring

66

[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:

RJ you just got told.

I quoted the best parts from this: his name is great , why cant i have one w/ 5 words?

" If you make that wall, only god know how many families will be destroyed, it will be in the hundreds of thousands. "

Not quite the mexican version of TC but but he is stirring[/quote]

Told what? This was total crap. Hundreds of thousands of people dying? Bullshit.

To equate a wall to our southern boarder to the wall in Germany is foolish. The wall there was not to keep people out, it was to keep people in. You do know the difference do you not?

Also the idea is not to keep people out, but decide who gets to come here. Right now it is an awfully large number of criminals. Research has proven that the economic costs are greater to us then the benefits.

And again nobody is saying we don’t want immigration, just legal with some control over it. I don’t care if the exact same numbers come across, I just want them to do it legally.

This is not just to benefit America, but to actually benefit the Mexicans also. How many die trying to get across the boarder? How many are taken advantage of once they are here, and do not go to the authorities because they are here illegally.

Who here wants us to just open the boarder, and remove all boarder guards from the boarder? Seriously? Are people saying there is no reason to have an immigration policy?

If it is so important, why doesn’t Mexico take the military off their southern boarder? Why doesn’t Hector tell his own country to do what he is telling us to do?

He came here legally, and as such belongs here. Does he not think others should do the same as he did? Wouldn’t he prefer his family came over without having to traverse a desert?

Let’s set things up so we can have legal immigration instead of illegal immigration. Guest worker program, things like that. Won’t this be of more benefit to our two countries then how things work now?

Think about it instead of just assuming bigotry here. How much does it cost them to keep crossing the boarder, get sent back, and cross again? How much are they losing because they are working for underground wages instead of legal ones?

Why do the liberals who so hate business actually want businesses to benefit from this? To not pay all the taxes they would if they were legal? To get away with paying these people lower wages then if they were legal? I keep hearing about how evil business owners are based solely on assumptions, yet here is a situation where the business owners are doing exactly what you complain about, and you support it fully? Why is that?

67

Yeah, Donny - How was I told anything but pro-illegal immigrant BS? You are falling for the tired old left wing tripe: “Children will suffer, and people will die”.

Just for the record - No one is advocating complete border shut down. No one is saying that there should be no immigration allowed for Mexico.

Make the right thing easy to do and the wrong thing hard. A wall will wind up saving lives.

68

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Yeah, Donny - How was I told anything but pro-illegal immigrant BS? You are falling for the tired old left wing tripe: “Children will suffer, and people will die”.
[/quote]

Isn’t that the right wing “tripe” in favor of the Patriot Act?

69

It was a good post, of course he really didnt give any arguements that would benefit or hurt the US depending on his stance, i just thought the post was funny

70

I don’t see the “taking jobs away from American’s” as an issue. While I lived in El Paso for 5 years I saw A LOT of “undocumented residents” (the PC term) doing shit that I wouldn’t do. If someone wants to come across the border and dig ditches, or lay asphalt in 115 degree temps. So be it. It needs to get done and I’m not doing it. The jobs the “undocumented residents” are taking are shit jobs no one wants anyway.

Putting a wall up to stop illegal entrance into the US is like a prostitute wearing panties. It’s only there for looks.

71

I, for one, am tired of all those damn Canadian’s coming over. I think we should build a wall up north as well. While we are at it we need to think about how to stop people trying to get in by boat. After that we should retro-activly deport anyone that came here illegally. If you are related to someone that came to America illegally, you need to go as well since you shouldn’t have ever been here in the first place.

The statue of liberty will no longer read, “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” Effective immediatly it will read, “Fuck you! Go away.”

72

[quote]vroom wrote:
ProfX, you are missing the point.

Any time a racist policy can be hidden within non-racist language, it’s seen as a win, because it is ultimately defensible.

Sort of like the concept of reverse discrimination.

So, if laws can target immigrants, but they can be worded in ways that don’t mention those groups in any way, because they have behaviors that can be targeted, then you have laws that are not written based on race.

Wink wink nudge nudge. Stop trying to upset the apple cart.[/quote]

I agree that the law could be applied in a racist manner. However, it’s neutral on its face, so unless it is actually applied in a racist manner it’s not a racist law.

It’s not that a law CAN target Latinos, black people, Asians, etc., it’s whether it MUST – if it MUST, then it’s facially unconstitutional. If it CAN, then you need to see how it’s actually applied.

In this case, I think there are valid concerns about overcrowding of neighborhoods – I live out in this metro area, though closer to the city, and I see how the extra cars, trash, etc. from overstuffed houses can depress property values of neighborhoods and generally affect quality of life issues for neighbors.

However, I also disagree with the goverment coming in and targeting families, extended or otherwise. As long as there’s not a fire-code violation for too many occupants in a house, then I don’t think the government should be kicking out cousins.

That, though, is different from targeting people who essentially run boarding houses out of single-family zoned homes. Neighbors don’t want to live next to apartment houses when the neighborhood is zoned for single-family occupancy (and the residence is taxed for single-family occupancy too). I actually agree with the part of the law that aims to curb this type of practice, irrespective of whether it creates a “disparate impact” – the “disparate impact” would be created because a certain group was doing this more than other groups, not because they were specifically targeted because of their race/ethnicity/what have you.

73

[quote]drilldaddy_99 wrote:
I, for one, am tired of all those damn Canadian’s coming over. I think we should build a wall up north as well. While we are at it we need to think about how to stop people trying to get in by boat. After that we should retro-activly deport anyone that came here illegally. If you are related to someone that came to America illegally, you need to go as well since you shouldn’t have ever been here in the first place.

The statue of liberty will no longer read, “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” Effective immediatly it will read, “Fuck you! Go away.” [/quote]

First of all believe it or not it is actually harder to get across the Canadian boarder then it is to get across the Mexican boarder.

And again why does wanting people to simply come here legally, with permission mean we want no immigrants here? Why does everyone have to twist what is being said?

This is not about keeping people out. It is about having control over whom (Damn grammar checker) we allow to come here, and about them having more dignity then they have now.

Have you actually read anything I have posted here?

I personally believe there are better ways then the wall. A temporary giant increase of boarder guards, and a little technology and the boarder is closed. And again I support a guest worker program, and giving people, if they want, the ability to earn citizenship.

For some reason it is believed that crossing a desert in the middle of the night, hiding in a trunk, or any of the other crazy ways people get across is preferable to coming through a gate, or driving across.

If we know a person is a killer, rapist, drug dealer, do we not have the right to keep them out?

“In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.” These are real statistics. This is the problem.

74

[quote]The Mage wrote:
drilldaddy_99 wrote:
First of all believe it or not it is actually harder to get across the Canadian boarder then it is to get across the Mexican boarder.

And again why does wanting people to simply come here legally, with permission mean we want no immigrants here? Why does everyone have to twist what is being said?

This is not about keeping people out. It is about having control over whom (Damn grammar checker) we allow to come here, and about them having more dignity then they have now.

Have you actually read anything I have posted here?

I personally believe there are better ways then the wall. A temporary giant increase of boarder guards, and a little technology and the boarder is closed. And again I support a guest worker program, and giving people, if they want, the ability to earn citizenship.

For some reason it is believed that crossing a desert in the middle of the night, hiding in a trunk, or any of the other crazy ways people get across is preferable to coming through a gate, or driving across.

If we know a person is a killer, rapist, drug dealer, do we not have the right to keep them out?
[/quote]

The post you replied to was meant to be add some humor. Obvously lost. However, A temporary increase in boarder patrol will only help temporary. There is technology on the boarder. There isn’t enough funding. Cheaper to build a wall then hire new folks. Maybe we could have illegal aliens watch the boarder…kind like trustees in prison.

Yes it is believed that jumping a river and crossing a desert at night is a better way to come over. They will be turned away at the gate. It’s sometimes hard as fuck to cross back into the US from Mexico as a US citizen. Driving over? Are you kidding? If they had a car they wouldn’t need to come over and get a job in order to feed their family.

75

[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Yeah, Donny - How was I told anything but pro-illegal immigrant BS? You are falling for the tired old left wing tripe: “Children will suffer, and people will die”.

Isn’t that the right wing “tripe” in favor of the Patriot Act?[/quote]

Isn’t tripe that connective tissue stuff of a stomach or intestines the hispanics put in menudo? It is ironic that we would be mentioning tripe in this thread. Im going to make some menudo back later

76

[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:
pittbulll wrote:

I live in Phx Az. Not only is illegal Immigration taking American Jobs They are also bringing down the cost or if you will (Value) of labor and or goods. That is a good thing as a consumer, but being self employed and offering both goods and labor I personally am not happy with our present approach.

I know it sucks competing against illeagals i hear you on that, but im for bringing down the value of labor, because it ultimately is what makes the process of manufacturing the product to the the customer carrying it out to their car from walmart the most efficient pricewise , energywise and labor wise. You have to realize that if we use laws to protect labor over here, thats fine and dandy because companies will just move offshore to cheaper places. So i see this as just a product of globablization, not necessarily either a good or bad thing[/quote]

Big don
I see it the same way I see out sourcing. It is fine as long as it is not your job.
Peace

77

[quote]drilldaddy_99 wrote:
I don’t see the “taking jobs away from American’s” as an issue. While I lived in El Paso for 5 years I saw A LOT of “undocumented residents” (the PC term) doing shit that I wouldn’t do. If someone wants to come across the border and dig ditches, or lay asphalt in 115 degree temps. So be it. It needs to get done and I’m not doing it. The jobs the “undocumented residents” are taking are shit jobs no one wants anyway.

Putting a wall up to stop illegal entrance into the US is like a prostitute wearing panties. It’s only there for looks.
[/quote]

I don?t have problems with immigrants doing a job that no one else will do. But I do have a problem with some one doing my job so cheap that it does not pay me to do it.
Our Sheriff is employing immigrants for jail house guards I really do not have a problem with that because he is offering a fair wage to do the job and cannot fill the jobs. Swift Trucking is trying to pave the way to bring in immigrants to drive truck. I do have a problem with that I am also aware that we can bring in Lawyers, Engineers, Nurses, Doctors and a multitude of other professions that will do the job cheaper than the American Market for labor will produce. I do not think there is a job in America that could not be replaced by an immigrant for a significant savings.
I think it is short sighted not to pay attention border problem. I don?t think a wall is the answer but we need to fine the living shit out of employers that hire illegal aliens, and for the more serious offenders they need jail time.

78

Hmm, speaking of twisting things. The guy with five names said families will be “destroyed”.

This isn’t the same as saying people will be dying in droves.

79

[quote]Professor X wrote:
etaco wrote:
If the wall actually succeeded it would make many areas of US agriculture less competitive.

Construction and business as well.
[/quote]

Bullshit. Prove it.

80

[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Professor X wrote:
etaco wrote:
If the wall actually succeeded it would make many areas of US agriculture less competitive.

Construction and business as well.

Bullshit. Prove it.[/quote]

Prove that decreasing a large pool of workers will make us less competitive in the areas they are decreased from until those spots are filled? That’s common sense and doesn’t need to be proven. That is like saying, “prove that if I hold my breath for 10 minutes that I will die.”