The Wake of Katrina - How Bad Is It?

Was anybody else watching CNN before the storm hit imagining a stadium full of people without electricity or running water?

I mean, not to be gross, but 20,000 people relieving themselves without running water, with no soap, no showers and no air conditioning during hot weather is going to be bad news very quickly.

I mean, getting everyone in there was great, but I was concerned that nobody was talking about how to deal with those folks the next day or two…

Anyway, I don’t intend this as a political comment, it was just on my mind. I’m watching CNN a lot and really hoping that getting soldiers and the national guard in there will get things under control so the emergency workers can do their jobs safely.

What was that city called in the Bible? Sadum and Gamora or something like that?

Hmm…

Please excuse the cross posting…

Hey, just a quick challenge to anyone out there reading this who hasn’t donated. I live in Canada, and I’ve donated.

If you live in the US and haven’t donated, then do it now dammit! You don’t have to give a lot to help out and your fellow citizens really need your help.

Repeating the link from above…

There is a button on the page that says “donate now”. It’s pretty damned simple folks.

[quote]Gregus wrote:
Thank God we have a right to bear arms. I feel everyone could use a weapon to defend against the animals with assault rifles searching the hallways. Pieces of shit ahould not be the only ones with weapons.[/quote]

I agree with this 100% If they loot, shoot. I can understand the need for food, but jewelry and shoes. These people deserve the slowest, most painful death possible

I guess those non-critical comments I made about blacks were wrong. It seems like their true colors are coming out as more and more are turning to violence and lawlessness. It seems like a lot of them are getting mad and fighting over getting out and food and water and since they can’t blame the storm, they blame the government. I agree it seems like the government could be doing more and maybe if they weren’t so thin right now, more military could be sent, but most of the people there are blacks who are used to govenment housing and relying on the government. They are getting desperate, and it seems like the worst is coming out. They are not being helpful and cooperative with the people helping them. The only white people I saw were ones who stayed to help sick and dying people. Now I hear rescuers are backing off because of the violence from the people they are trying to rescue. I just hope the good people black and white can stick it out and deal with it and get through it.

Bad people are bad people, it doesn’t matter the color of their skin… these are people.

Of course regular folks are getting upset, they see people dying around them, they see lawlessness and violence and they don’t see anything coming to save them. They are afraid.

They don’t have any way to save themselves. There are no cars or boats for them. They have no posessions and no money. They don’t even know where they should go to find aid.

Instead of worrying about the few bad people causing problems and focusing on the color of their skin, maybe find something more constructive to worry about.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Please excuse the cross posting…

Hey, just a quick challenge to anyone out there reading this who hasn’t donated. I live in Canada, and I’ve donated.

If you live in the US and haven’t donated, then do it now dammit! You don’t have to give a lot to help out and your fellow citizens really need your help.

Repeating the link from above…

There is a button on the page that says “donate now”. It’s pretty damned simple folks.[/quote]

I’ve donated through my firm – they’re matching all donations from all employees, associates and partners dollar for dollar. Check and see if your company has a similar program, and then by all means, pick up the challenge.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
vroom wrote:
Please excuse the cross posting…

Hey, just a quick challenge to anyone out there reading this who hasn’t donated. I live in Canada, and I’ve donated.

If you live in the US and haven’t donated, then do it now dammit! You don’t have to give a lot to help out and your fellow citizens really need your help.

Repeating the link from above…

There is a button on the page that says “donate now”. It’s pretty damned simple folks.

I’ve donated through my firm – they’re matching all donations from all employees, associates and partners dollar for dollar. Check and see if your company has a similar program, and then by all means, pick up the challenge.[/quote]

My firm is offering the same program.

I will be donating money to them and foor/supplies through my church. I live in Houston so we have a few Churches that are hosting refugees.

[quote]Pretzel Logic wrote:
I guess those non-critical comments I made about blacks were wrong. It seems like their true colors are coming out as more and more are turning to violence and lawlessness. It seems like a lot of them are getting mad and fighting over getting out and food and water and since they can’t blame the storm, they blame the government. I agree it seems like the government could be doing more and maybe if they weren’t so thin right now, more military could be sent, but most of the people there are blacks who are used to govenment housing and relying on the government. They are getting desperate, and it seems like the worst is coming out. They are not being helpful and cooperative with the people helping them. The only white people I saw were ones who stayed to help sick and dying people. Now I hear rescuers are backing off because of the violence from the people they are trying to rescue. I just hope the good people black and white can stick it out and deal with it and get through it.[/quote]

It has nothing to do with a race of people acting negatively. The reason that it is mostly minorities that are looting is because they were the ones who did not have enough money to evacuate. They did not have cars or money to buy other ways out of the city so they were left behind. They were abandoned in the city and now have been without food, water, medicine, running water etc. and are watching dead bodies floating around and people dying off each day. I have seen pictures of women holding week old babies. If I had a week old baby, I sure as hell would do anything I could to find some sort of nourishment whether if it was by looting for food or looting other things to buy my way out of the city.

IMO, this shows a problem with poverty levels and our country in general. The government can spend billions of dollars to be at war with other countries and provide relief to other countries but yet cannot adequately provide relief to our own citizens.

And, did anyone else see the articles about how the federal government cut funding to repair the the levees that cause the flooding in the first place?

This was posted by one of the editors of the Dallas Morning News’ editorial page, on The National Review’s group webblog “The Corner”

http://corner.nationalreview.com/05_08_28_corner-archive.asp#075254

ANARCHY, AGAIN. [Rod Dreher]
Heard just now from an old journalism school friend, now living in Atlanta, who sent the following desperate message by e-mail: I am hoping you can help. I am friends with a NOPD police officer Elizabeth Garcia. Things are MUCH MUCH worse in New Orleans. The inmates took over Central Lock up in New Orleans and took over the armory. They are targeting police and the police are under seige. She and 9 other police officers are running out of ammuntion and are being held down at the Hampton Inn across from the Convention Center. She just got her cell phone access and is calling everyone she knows to get out the information. They need assistance immediately. Please help in any way you can.

I called my friend just now to verify this. She said things have improved a bit since she sent the mail earlier this morning. She said that she got it to CNN, who relayed it to authorities. My friend, Lee, said that she spoke by phone to Officer Garcia (who can’t call anybody locally, but who can call out of the 504 and 225 area codes), who said the criminal gangs have automatic weaponry because they looted the police armory. According to Lee, Ofc. Garcia told her that the police can’t help people because “anybody in a uniform is being targeted” by these gangs. NOPD is receiving reports of children being raped and killed by these thugs, but they are outgunned and powerless. “It’s complete and total anarchy,” Lee quoted Ofc. Garcia as saying.

I ask you: WHERE IS THE ARMY? WHY ARE WE LEAVING THESE AMERICANS TO SUFFER AND POSSIBLY DIE? Honestly, folks, I cannot believe federal authorities are leaving these police officers and civilians to this. Is this America, or Somalia? The government has failed. Is failing. It is an outrage.

This appears to be good news – it looks as if the National Guard is moving in, at least partially:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/index.html

(CNN) – A convoy of military vehicles plowed through the flooded streets of New Orleans on Friday bringing food, water and medicine to the thousands of people trapped at a downtown convention center.

The relief effort came as President Bush toured the Gulf Coast to survey damage from Hurricane Katrina and shortly after the mayor of New Orleans said the city was “holding on by a thread.”

The Associated Press reported a large oil spill spotted in the Mississippi River downstream from New Orleans, state officials said.

The oil was seen during a flyover to the Venice area by the Department of Environmental Quality, the AP reported.

Venice is about 75 miles southeast of New Orleans.

Lt. Gen. Russel Honore was directing the deployment of National Guard troops – expected to number 1,000 – from a New Orleans street corner. (See video of the convoy roll through floodwaters – 3:33)

Honore said getting food and water to the people at the convention center was a difficult process. “If you ever have 20,000 people come to supper, you know what I’m talking about,” the general said. “If it was easy, it would have been done already.”

CNN’s Barbara Starr, who is traveling with the three-star general, said Honore is “very determined to keep this looking like a humanitarian relief operation.” (See the mayor’s order to stop the talking and send soldiers to help – 1:00)

“A few moments ago, he stopped a truck full of National Guard troops … and said, ‘Point your weapons down, this is not Iraq,’” Starr reported.

Authorities were working to evacuate the Ernest Morial Convention Center, trying to help the weakest people first.

Evacuees in and around the crowded building described harrowing conditions.

“There’s no food. There’s no water. There’s shooting. They’re killing people,” evacuee Tishia Walters told CNN from inside the center. “They’re robbing men in the restrooms, they’re raping women trying to go to the restroom. So people have resorted to defecating on the floors. You can’t walk. There’s babies without Pampers, mammas without milk. It’s chaos total chaos.”

Mayor Ray Nagin said in a statement that more than 10,000 people were evacuated from the city Thursday but that more than 50,000 survivors were still on rooftops and in shelters, in urgent need of help.

Earlier, Nagin lashed out at state and federal authorities saying they were “thinking small” in the face of the massive crisis. (See the mayor’s demand for national leaders to ‘get off their asses’ – 12:09)

My only comment right now is on the length of time it is taking for the guard / military to get down there.

Last year, last September 3rd to be exact, I drove from CO to NOLA for a weekend show. Straight thru. Took 22 hours. How long has it been? Five days now?

[quote]LowfatMatt wrote:
My only comment right now is on the length of time it is taking for the guard / military to get down there.

Last year, last September 3rd to be exact, I drove from CO to NOLA for a weekend show. Straight thru. Took 22 hours. How long has it been? Five days now?[/quote]

I think it is taking an awfully long time, but I would say that it’s a much more difficult process than it would have been driving down prior to the storm. Big trucks need to drive on interstates – they need those bridges. The terrain around New Orleans is about the worst I could imagine in terms of getting big trucks through if the interstates were made impassable and the bridges taken down by the storm – it’s basically swampland, and flooded swampland right now.

The logistics must be a nightmare, but they need to get it done, and quickly.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
This is almost beyond comprehension to me. I have seen some first-hand reports of how bad it is down there, via some emails from friends of mine who have family down there.

This is the starkest example:

"My sister just got off the phone w/ her good friend who is a nurse at Charity Hospital in New Orleans. He stayed on the job through the hurricane and is now stranded there. She spoke to him very briefly because there is only one emergency phone working and there is a line of people trying to call loved ones. Their brief conversation and his conversation w/ his wife included the following description of the scene:

The generators at the hospital are out. All patients that were on life support are dead. From the upper floors dead bodies can be seen floating in the water. Men w/ assault rifles entered the hospital and took all the drugs. During one of the assaults on the hospital, a female nurse was raped and one male nurse that tried to defend her was killed. Some patients have died due to lack of medications. He told my sister that the scene is unfathomable. After dark last night they had to barricade themselves in an office to get away from the animals that were searching the halls w/ assault rifles. Yesterday they were told that the military was going to extract them using helicopters but no further word has come. He concluded saying that he might not live."

Send in the army, and have them deal with this appropriately. And don’t try to tell me they’re not animals.
[/quote]
Where the FUCK do we live that this is happening and is allowed to happen? Usually the worst tragedies bring out the best in people. I don’t ever remember hearing about it bring out the worst in people to this degree.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
haney wrote:
Gregus wrote:
Thank God we have a right to bear arms. I feel everyone could use a weapon to defend against the animals with assault rifles searching the hallways. Pieces of shit ahould not be the only ones with weapons.

Gregus, I don’t believe I have spoke with you before. I hope I am interpreting your post correctly. It seems sarcastic toward our right to have arms. If so, then my reply is below. If I misunderstood you then please ignore my post.

Do you honestly believe the people raping, and stealing drugs, and killing patients got their weapons legeally?

I don’t think he is being sarcastic.

I think he wants the right to fight back.
[/quote]
No one has to give you the right to fight back.

First before I make my post I just want to protest at the disgraceful use of the word ‘heathens’ in reference to the scum that are running around with rifles raping and pillaging so to speak. To term them heathens, as if some sort of lack of a God is causing this behaviour is ignorant and insulting to non-believers. I am shocked that someone could take the moral high ground yet ridiculously label these people in such a way.

I am appalled by the scenes over there and so is everyone else I know. Its like a scene from a third world country and just makes us acutely aware of the gulf between the rich and the poor in the richest nation on Earth. No whites are seen practically anywhere in the footage as they mostly escaped safely leaving behind the masses of underpriviliged people. The looting and lawlessness, whilst it isn’t ideal, is inevitable. These people have no food or water and are watching bodies float by every day and they aren’t going to do whatever is necessary to survive? That said the gangs of people trying to take over the city in the absence of law is disgraceful. The scenes are horrible and my heart goes out to those suffering in New Orleans at the minute.

Why is the most powerful nation on earth able to have such a crisis on its own soil? The relief has been terrible. 5 full days later and still the response has been pathetic. The inaction of the authorities and dreadfully bad organisation of relief has cost many more lives than September the 11th ever could. How can a nation police the globe when it cannot even look after its own citizens?

My family has donated to the relief effort after seeing on BBC the devestation. I just hope it makes a difference. I don’t understand why there could not have been a proper contingency plan in place, there was warning this would happen. Why has aid been so slow? Why has evacuation been so non existent up to now?

[quote]haney wrote:

Do you honestly believe the people raping, and stealing drugs, and killing patients got their weapons legeally?


[/quote]

Do you honestly believe these weapons were manufactured and then sold illegaly?

I think we’ll learn in a couple of months that those looting were mostly people trying to survive by getting food and water. There’s nobody at the shop. Who are you going to pay?

As with the gangs and violence. That’s ALWAYS overreported at times like these. I’m not saying it’s not happening, but very likely not at the scale we’re told now.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
I think it is taking an awfully long time, but I would say that it’s a much more difficult process than it would have been driving down prior to the storm. Big trucks need to drive on interstates – they need those bridges. The terrain around New Orleans is about the worst I could imagine in terms of getting big trucks through if the interstates were made impassable and the bridges taken down by the storm – it’s basically swampland, and flooded swampland right now.

The logistics must be a nightmare, but they need to get it done, and quickly.[/quote]

Please keep in mind that I only said what I said as a point of reference. Nothing more. There is no way that the two tasks could be compared.

Logistics: yes. Insane. But, (and I know I am going to get in deep with this opinion, but keep in mind that it is just that) I think in times like this we need to act first and ask questions later. 9/11, sure, we couldn’t go around blowing up every party we thought might have been responsible for it. In this case I think maybe, just possibly, there was a bit more bureaucracy than necessary considering the circumstances. I dunno, hind sight, I guess… and this coming from an average Joe that has absolutely no idea about what goes into these types of things.

Like I said, just an opinion from a complete novice / outsider on the situation. I certainly am not sitting back and blaming the government for this one. Freak of nature / act of God sort of thing. No one can be held accountable. I guess it’s just human nature to need to put blame somewhere.

Has anyone heard a death count, I have been listening pretty regularly and I have not heard any numbers