The Virgin Birth

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
181

[quote]Drunkard wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
What are the biggest differences in a nutshell?[/quote]

Off the top of my head, infant baptism and Chrismation, Orthodox priests can get married before they are ordained, the Filioque. The head Primate of the Orthodox Church is called the Patriarch (of whichever city is he is located). Orthodox believe in consubstantiation and Catholics in transubstantiation.

There’s more. Sorry for the limited response but it’s been a long day.[/quote]

Just to be nit picky.

How is infant baptism and Chrismation different between the two? We both baptize infants and we both give Chrismation?

Catholic priests can get married before they are ordained.

The Filioque has been resolved for over two decades. The head of the Catholic Church is the Patriarch of the West. Catholics believe in consubstantiation, but that refers to being made of the same substance of the Father not the Eucharist. Transubstantiation has also been resolved for a few decades.

182

[quote]Drunkard wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I wish we had some Eastern Orthodox members on these forums. I don’t know the first thing about them. [/quote]

Basically Catholic, they are considered to be in profound communion with Rome. I’m not Orthodox but I am what some call Byzantine or Eastern Catholic. It is truly a beautiful tradition (besides the whole schism thing and nationalism thing) and I pray everyday for my brothers to join me in coming to be in communion with the Pope. [/quote]

As a Byzantine Catholic, do you have Mass or Liturgy? And is it the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom?[/quote]

Liturgy. Yes, I have attended a few particular Churches that celebrate the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. Being as I am living in a heavily German/Dutch Catholic area I only have available the Latin Mass.

183

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]KingKai25 wrote:

  1. Your Galileo example did not illustrate that point at all. It merely showed that, at a particular point in time, many within the Catholic church interpreted various biblical statements too literally.[/quote]

That is actually not true.

The best observable evidence back then pointed to him being wrong.

It was actually the CC that insisted on the scientific method and he thought he could make them reinterpret the whole bible based on what was back then little more than hot air. [/quote]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
[/quote]

Lolololol what?

He could not explain the tides, he could not explain, and this is the really big one, why there was no visible parallax if the earth actually revolved around the sun.

Thing is, there is one, but at that time, with the shitty instrumenst they had, it was not observable.

So, they did what any self respecting scientist would do and said that the observable phenomena did not support his theory and decided to stick with what works.

For someone whorshipping at the altar of rationality you are surprisingly puerile if things dont go your way. [/quote]

So THAT’S why they put him under house arrest, forced him to recant, and so forth.

Because he was incompetent…

Got it. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!![/quote]

No, that they did because he declared to be right anyway and that the Bible needed to be reinterpreted to fit into his model.

Since he one of the most prominent scientists at that time that was a problem.

Eben that did only occur after he more or less pissed on the then pope who had been a long term supporter of his.

So again, lolololol what?[/quote]

Orion is right. He had the usual option of presenting his model as a hypothesis and it would have been accepted as such. That he presented it as fact was the problem. And it took a hundred years before the evidence was compelling.

184

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
How’d we lose two great posters like that (Forlife and Sterneneisen). [/quote]

They probably just decided that it was time to focus on different things. I’ve certainly considered removing myself from T-Nation entirely so that I could give more to my family or my job.

Sometimes, too, you just grow out of something. I used to post on the Steroid board more regularly than I post here. There are a few of my threads in the stickies and to this day I get people asking me for advice via PM. I have tried going back and posting a few times, but I just don’t feel it anymore. Pookie came back here a couple of times and it seemed to be the same for him. He didn’t really seem into it and quickly left again.

I’d like to see a lot of these guys back, but I’m not holding my breath. [/quote]

I myself have been pretty busy and haven’t been able make many posts with a lot of substance.

185

[quote]pat wrote:<<< I think forlife was/ is dealing with “life” issues. I.E. I believe something went wrong, >>>[/quote] I haven’t talked to him for a little while now, but the last time we emailed back and forth he gave no indication that there was anything except being busy.[quote]pat wrote:<<< I’ll give him props he made me work harder than anybody else ever has, which helped me out a lot. I learned a lot from the process of taking on a worthy opponent >>>[/quote]It’s rather big of you to say this Pat. I mean that. Elder Forlife is a world champion autonomous man who is absolutely wrong about so very much of what he’s absolutely right about.

186

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
How’d we lose two great posters like that (Forlife and Sterneneisen). [/quote]

They probably just decided that it was time to focus on different things. I’ve certainly considered removing myself from T-Nation entirely so that I could give more to my family or my job.

Sometimes, too, you just grow out of something. I used to post on the Steroid board more regularly than I post here. There are a few of my threads in the stickies and to this day I get people asking me for advice via PM. I have tried going back and posting a few times, but I just don’t feel it anymore. Pookie came back here a couple of times and it seemed to be the same for him. He didn’t really seem into it and quickly left again.

I’d like to see a lot of these guys back, but I’m not holding my breath. [/quote]

I think forlife was/ is dealing with “life” issues. I.E. I believe something went wrong, and I wish him the best. I’ll give him props he made me work harder than anybody else ever has, which helped me out a lot. I learned a lot from the process of taking on a worth opponent.

Pookie did come back, but he turned into a jerk. He used to be somebody able to have a reasoned discussion. Perhaps he was uninterested, or just really turned into a jerk I don’t know. While most of my interactions with him have been engaging, his last postings were pure vitriol. [/quote]

He was tired, if I recall correctly - something about having to repeat points that were being ignored out of convenience.

187

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
How’d we lose two great posters like that (Forlife and Sterneneisen). [/quote]

They probably just decided that it was time to focus on different things. I’ve certainly considered removing myself from T-Nation entirely so that I could give more to my family or my job.

Sometimes, too, you just grow out of something. I used to post on the Steroid board more regularly than I post here. There are a few of my threads in the stickies and to this day I get people asking me for advice via PM. I have tried going back and posting a few times, but I just don’t feel it anymore. Pookie came back here a couple of times and it seemed to be the same for him. He didn’t really seem into it and quickly left again.

I’d like to see a lot of these guys back, but I’m not holding my breath. [/quote]

I think forlife was/ is dealing with “life” issues. I.E. I believe something went wrong, and I wish him the best. I’ll give him props he made me work harder than anybody else ever has, which helped me out a lot. I learned a lot from the process of taking on a worth opponent.

Pookie did come back, but he turned into a jerk. He used to be somebody able to have a reasoned discussion. Perhaps he was uninterested, or just really turned into a jerk I don’t know. While most of my interactions with him have been engaging, his last postings were pure vitriol. [/quote]

He was tired, if I recall correctly - something about having to repeat points that were being ignored out of convenience.[/quote]

We all have to do that over and over. When he split we where engaged in a very good discussion. He said he was heading to his nieces b-day party over the weekend but he was very interested in continuing. I was actually the last person to talk to him on the forum.

He hinted before that something was up, life wise. It wasn’t my business and I didn’t pursue, but that’s why I think something went wrong. I could be wrong, but at last discussion he had every intention of continuing the discussion we were having.

188

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Here’s an interesting quote from Sterneneisen who said here: Homosexuality and the Church - Politics and World Issues - Forums - T Nation [quote]<<< I thoroughly agree with anyone saying that the Roman Catholic “church” is a “church” led by murderering, sadistic, money-hungry, unchristian bishops (i.e. the Pope), though. “Know the tree by its fruit”… >>>[/quote][/quote]

Sterneneisen hardly pays attentions to the letters put out by his own bishops so the fact that he has a poor view characteristic of the prideful and nationalistic view that characterized of much of the schism between orthodox Christendom and the schismatic movement known as the Orthodox.

189

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Drunkard wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
What are the biggest differences in a nutshell?[/quote]

Off the top of my head, infant baptism and Chrismation, Orthodox priests can get married before they are ordained, the Filioque. The head Primate of the Orthodox Church is called the Patriarch (of whichever city is he is located). Orthodox believe in consubstantiation and Catholics in transubstantiation.

There’s more. Sorry for the limited response but it’s been a long day.[/quote]

Just to be nit picky.

How is infant baptism and Chrismation different between the two? We both baptize infants and we both give Chrismation?

Catholic priests can get married before they are ordained.

The Filioque has been resolved for over two decades. The head of the Catholic Church is the Patriarch of the West. Catholics believe in consubstantiation, but that refers to being made of the same substance of the Father not the Eucharist. Transubstantiation has also been resolved for a few decades.[/quote]

I wasn’t completely sure about infant Chrismation in the Catholic Church. Also, I’ve never met a Catholic priest who is also married. I also can’t agree that the Filioque issue has been resolved. The Churches say seperate Creeds.

190

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Here’s an interesting quote from Sterneneisen who said here: Homosexuality and the Church - Politics and World Issues - Forums - T Nation [quote]<<< I thoroughly agree with anyone saying that the Roman Catholic “church” is a “church” led by murderering, sadistic, money-hungry, unchristian bishops (i.e. the Pope), though. “Know the tree by its fruit”… >>>[/quote][/quote]

Sterneneisen hardly pays attentions to the letters put out by his own bishops so the fact that he has a poor view characteristic of the prideful and nationalistic view that characterized of much of the schism between orthodox Christendom and the schismatic movement known as the Orthodox.[/quote]His bishops aren’t your bishops?

191

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Here’s an interesting quote from Sterneneisen who said here: Homosexuality and the Church - Politics and World Issues - Forums - T Nation [quote]<<< I thoroughly agree with anyone saying that the Roman Catholic “church” is a “church” led by murderering, sadistic, money-hungry, unchristian bishops (i.e. the Pope), though. “Know the tree by its fruit”… >>>[/quote][/quote]

Sterneneisen hardly pays attentions to the letters put out by his own bishops so the fact that he has a poor view characteristic of the prideful and nationalistic view that characterized of much of the schism between orthodox Christendom and the schismatic movement known as the Orthodox.[/quote]

That’s nothing more than propaganda. I’ve read what I believe are the same letters you speak of, and I can assure you there is nothing close to a union of East and West in the near future. Which is sad, because more than anything the issues are not completely theological but also political. I know you’re going to insinuate it’s because Orthodox are schismatic, nationalistic or whatever, but there is plenty of blame to go around.

192

[quote]Drunkard wrote:
I wasn’t completely sure about infant Chrismation in the Catholic Church. Also, I’ve never met a Catholic priest who is also married. I also can’t agree that the Filioque issue has been resolved. The Churches say seperate Creeds. [/quote]

You have never met an Eastern Rite priest (not all, but a good deal of the ones I know have very beautiful wives (singular)) then. The rule (with exceptions) for Latin Rite priests is celibacy, but of course that could change as it is a rule and not doctrine.

193

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
His bishops aren’t your bishops?
[/quote]

I have one (or two, depending on how you look at it) bishops, Archbishop Robert J. Carlson and Bishop James V. Johnston, Jr.

His Bishop is Metropolitan Isaiah of Denver.

194

[quote]Drunkard wrote:
but there is plenty of blame to go around.[/quote]

Never said there wasn’t, but according to both sides, the five Sees are getting relatively close.

195

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
His bishops aren’t your bishops?
[/quote]

I have one (or two, depending on how you look at it) bishops, Archbishop Robert J. Carlson and Bishop James V. Johnston, Jr.

His Bishop is Metropolitan Isaiah of Denver.[/quote]What if you lived next door to him?

196

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
His bishops aren’t your bishops?
[/quote]

I have one (or two, depending on how you look at it) bishops, Archbishop Robert J. Carlson and Bishop James V. Johnston, Jr.

His Bishop is Metropolitan Isaiah of Denver.[/quote]What if you lived next door to him?
[/quote]

My Bishop would be Archbishop Samuel J. Aquila.

197

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:His bishops aren’t your bishops?[/quote]I have one (or two, depending on how you look at it) bishops, Archbishop Robert J. Carlson and Bishop James V. Johnston, Jr. His Bishop is Metropolitan Isaiah of Denver.[/quote]What if you lived next door to him?[/quote]My Bishop would be Archbishop Samuel J. Aquila.[/quote]Thank you Chris. I have duly noted this.