I don’t know, I consider myself religiously orientated and predisposed.
Cool. I’d bake you a Jesus cake (assuming you’re Christian).
Would you bake a gay couple a gay wedding cake? Do you think gay marriage should be condoned by our government?
No and no. Condoned? Why in the heck would I support that? I AM one of those bigots you’re talking about. I’m not even trying to say I’m not. I have no interest in quibbling over “bigot.” Go for it. Now, if a gay wanted a birthday cake, sure.
Do you think we could still be friends in person?
“Condoning” brings up an interesting point about gay marriage and the modern political landscape. A huge chunk of libertarianesque independents don’t think that the government has any business in marriage. The same is true of some religious people. There is a big ‘if then’ therefore, "if the state is going to license marriage, then should the state be able to define marriage based on traditional definitions, or Judeo-Christian ones, or on ones that depend on someone’s possibly intrinsic characteristics or even free choices, and a lot of libertarians and some Christians have said, “no” that is moving to the extreme of Theocracy. The real problem I have is that the government gets to condone marriage in the first place but as I understand it, it was due largely on the fact that marriage has proved historically to reduce indigence primarily among unwed women and children born out of marriage.
I don’t want state sponsored marriage at all. It is discriminatory against people who are not psychologically set-up to be married.
I’m cool with state sponsored unions. All long term committed couples deserve the same rights. Each religious denomination can have it’s own marriage.
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Do you think that it is important for the state to license marriage? For social reasons? Because of your particular religious beliefs?
Wondering too, there more than a dozen states that allow first cousin marriages. What do you think about that assuming that it was shown that first cousin marriages did or did not contribute to rates of congenital diseases?
If marriage affords benefits such as tax status, is it discriminatory against people who are not “set-up” for marriage, say someone who feels innately drawn to celibacy?
My main point though is that a lot of people used to be against gay marriage because they were against state involvement in our lives, but they have tended to move to the side of “if the state’s is going to be involved then what the heck”. They’d prefer no state involvement in marriage at all.
False. This has been debunked.
I think heterosexuality in general, and heterosexual marriage in particular serves a fundamentally critical role that has wide and far reaching implications for society and the public.
In short, I think the state does have a logical interest in the orderly arrangement of the biologically reproductive sexes.
But yes, if you’re defining bigotry by allowable marriages, then until all consenting arrangements between adults are recognized, there will be that dreaded ultimate secular sin, discrimination. So, 20 unit non-romantic arrangements for example, should be allowed.
You don’t want certain people in the country because they have different beliefs than you? Bigot.
Begun, the bigotry war has. Hmm.
Edited for greater fidelity to the original line…
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Government benefits of marriage are there because in a marriage two individuals act economically as one, are more likely to have a family, and act as each other’s family. Look at why those specific benefits exist, and then ask yourself if they are unfair.
You want to discuss the ideas, or the semantics?
You are correct, I would prefer there be no people in this country who hold hateful views against those who do them no harm.
That must change!
I guess we disagree on the baker being hateful. He offered them everything in his store. He just declined to make them a special cake. The gay couple didn’t have to drive 60 miles out of their way to berate this baker, either. They seemed more hateful than the baker IMO.
Do you understand why polygamy and incest are illegal?
The baker saying the couple was not worthy of marriage in his eyes was less hateful than the couple wanting to pay the baker for an overpriced cake.
Got it.
Because of discrimination.Wait…You do support state recognition of any and all imaginable arrangements between consenting adults, right?!
The right to not be offended!
Edit: And I’d say using the threat of force (the government) to force the baker’s hand is most hateful of all. In the end, the baker only wished to not participate in any way with a very specific circumstance. The couple would FORCE his participation.
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Did he say that or politely deny to make a cake while offering to sell them other ones in his store?
Nothing shows tolerance more than a gay couple driving past a dozen other bakeries to go to the christian baker just so they could berate him.