The Race Thread - 2021

Agreed. Even in a racially homogeneous country like China and other parts of Asia, people will discriminate amongst different dialect groups, cultures from different geographical regions, religion/religious factions, sex/gender, immigrants, social classes, etc. People gonna hate. Opportunists are gonna gaslight for money and power. Race is ONE reason/excuse for them to do so.

It’s part of the human condition. You can’t eradicate it.

On the other hand, you can’t look at how people think in a one dimensional way.

My grandmother would curse the Japanese as a whole for what they did in S.E Asia during WW2 while encouraging me to get a Japanese spouse because they’re “obedient” and was ecstatic when I was really dating a Japanese chick long ago lol.

Then I met my wife and she was berating me when I told her she’s from China because people from China “are coarse, disrespectful and can’t keep their homes clean” LMAO. We are CHINESE. Then she met her and now they get along extremely well. My grandmother is the kind of person who will complain and gossip about EVERYONE. BUT she never says anything about my wife.

Agreed again. There are certain thoughts I have on this issue but my main point would be that one shouldn’t have to struggle needlessly but should be brought up in a way that one CAN handle shit if one needs to struggle. I know this is not what the guy you’re replying to is saying but I can’t be bothered to address his point because he’s living in some fantasy world.

Your parents and their parents didn’t work their asses off so you would have to struggle as much as they did and I’ll bet you’d do the same for your kid.

I lived a pretty tough life but I don’t buy the arguments that the generations after mine should have to go through what I did, just like I didn’t go through the shit my previous generation did during WW2. Each new generation may be “softer” but so what? Being “hard” isn’t something to really boast about. Several badass motherfuckers I know would go crazy if I forced them to learn to code lol. Are they bigger wusses than tech nerds? What am I doing with my “street savviness” and ability to take shit nowadays although it benefitted me in business initially although I could have just used my degree for an equally lucrative profession if I wasn’t so bloody rebellious at the time?

I’m watching nonsense on YouTube and Netflix on my bigass smart TV while sitting on my “ergonomically designed” recliner my wife bought me.

The only difference is I can be comfortable both doing this and squatting on the floor while eating my lunch on the sidewalk when I had to do manual labour way back. This latter would never be required of any kid here today since the economy has shifted so drastically here there would literally be no jobs for any local kid who wants to do that in the first place so what’s the point?

There are always going to be rich and poor people in any country. The only difference is how many there are, and what is considered “poor”?

China has a minimal welfare system. NO handouts in any form were given during their lockdowns. Even prior to the pandemic, if you walked around the street in Shenzhen during peak hours, you’d see 15-20 beggars in 20 minutes.

We’ve had over a year of a world wide pandemic. Societies in 1st Wold countries haven’t crumbled even though the new generations have been getting “softer”. The developing nations are the ones getting fucked because they have no money. Why don’t they have money? Because the governments fuck it up when “evil” multinational corporations try to invest and build infrastructure.

Which brings me back to the guy you are responding to. HE is the kind of kid that was brought up without being taught how to struggle when needed. People who have gone through real shit in their lives don’t think like this unless they’re fucking worthless bums.

You know why there aren’t as many of these bums in Asia? Because there’s NO FUCKING WELFARE. Even the fucking beggars without any visible physical ailments in China “earn” their money by bowing every second for HOURS.

Even under socialism in the later years of the Cultural Revolution when they briefly managed to pull off the food cards and shit and relied very little on money, their mindset was that if you didn’t work in some way while receiving your handouts, people would spit at you. No fucking excuses unless you were severely physically disabled. A socialist bum is really a fucking oxymoron despite what kids think these days.

Severe back pain? Fuck you. Depression? Fuck you. Raising kids? Fuck you. Missing a leg? You still have one. Fuck you. Wong lost both and he’s still pushing himself around on a self-made wooden trolley. Fucked up childhood? Fuck you. Missed a shift because you were watching Petticoat Junction on a black market satellite TV? Fuck you, off to the countryside labour camp you go.

A fucking politician in Malaysia can refer to Chinese as “pigs” TODAY and nothing will happen to him. And still the local Chinese are the ones propping up their entire economy despite being a 25% minority with Affirmative Action implemented for the majority race for almost 50 fucking years. But even amongst the Chinese communities, there are dirt poor ones because they developed a shitty culture.

I’m NOT trying to equate this to the US since I don’t know what’s really going on there. I’m just stating that if a group of people decides to think as individuals and prop themselves up, they can eventually elevate themselves at least to a certain degree as long as they have the mindset and there are enough of them to make cultural changes take place.

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Ding ding ding!! We have a winner.

Outstanding post overall as well.

There’s nothing wrong with acknowledgement of the very real inequalities that exist today and asking how we can fix them. However, the difference is that focusing explicitly on race tends to divide as you said.

It’s not productive.

I think more importantly is, will you struggle to make it better for the next generation… or just consume it all because it came your way?

I’m not saying this about you personally, but I think this is a key question. Life is only better for us because the last 6-10 generations of people struggled to make it better.

To paraphrase Richard Dawkins, left to itself a society will crumble into apathy and jealousy. It takes active struggle to avoid both and to improve life. Every generation needs to do the work, which I think was one of the overall themes from the discussion on compulsory service in the Stupid Thread.

This to me is absolutely central. To take @jshaving first post, this is what make the non-stop focus on race so problematic for many people, myself included. It feels like people are being BLAMED for something instead of saying, “look, we have to solve this problem; it’s up to us”.

Solving the problem I’m all for. As I mentioned above I think it’s important for EACH generation to work to make their world better for those who come after us. Otherwise things crumble instead of moving forward. But having a bunch of entitled, selfish, egotistical and to be frank not very smart activists yell at everyone or quote out of the absolutely ridiculously asinine book that is “White Fragility” and make everything about race…no thank you.

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@jshaving I think you chose a bad title for this thread. Race as it relates to PWI is something I feel is perfectly summed up by one of the many people upon whose shoulders we all stand today.

I don’t think there is or should be a whole lot more to discuss about race when it comes to setting government policy that we all have to live with and that our children will inherit.

That said, you wrote out a very thoughtful post about how we teach history in the USA, which I believe needs to be accurate and representative of real events. That’s also why I think it is important for local control of education.

Going back to my own antiquated education, I think it was relevant and important that State History as I learned it included the shameful part of Indiana history when the Klan got really socially popular, sowed a ton of chaos and caused a great deal of harm to other Hoosiers. It was not taught to me as a high point of Hoosier society and culture.

The awfulness of that situation was easily apparent to anyone with a basic understanding of core values shared by most Americans at the time, which was the 1980’s and early 90’s. I wasn’t made aware of every atrocity that happened everywhere on the planet, but I certainly didn’t graduate public HS 23 years ago with the idea that abhorrent racism in the USA wasn’t a thing or doesn’t have ripple effects through the generations. We also learned about the Trail of Tears in elementary school 30+ years ago. Again, this was not taught as a high point of our culture and society, but as a mark of shame.

I don’t think it is as important for non-Hoosiers to learn about Indiana dysfunction in the 1920’s. At best it should be a sentence in a chapter about American History for some kid a few hundred miles away in some other state with some other fuckery to spend your time learning about.

When it comes to CRT, it needs to be viewed as the social and cultural poison that it is. It needs to be rejected vehemently by anyone with a conscience or concerns about what gets left in our wake.

Teaching CRT is squandering education time and education opportunities. It is spending that valuable time teaching a nonsensical racist ideology to children as fact. I oppose it with the same vigor that I would oppose KKK ideology being taught as fact to children.

We could spend that time making better readers, writers, or children who understand mathematics better than they do today.

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But the money is reparations. It’s being given to correct an issue in such a way that it creates a better future. If the people who get the money end up wasting it and end up back on welfare, what was the point?

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The problem is “us” means white people. It removes any responsibility from black people to play a part in solving the problem. And given that most black people do not live in poverty, maybe they don’t need as much hand holding from white people as the woke elites think.

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It’s money given in lieu of actually being able to compensate people for what was taken. The government couldn’t actually give Japanese Americans back time or rights that had been trampled any more than the US military could bring someone back to life after dropping a bomb on the wrong house in OIF / OEF. When we can’t actually go back to right the wrong, we give people money that approximates the price tag of the wrong. It’s different from a philanthropic grant or a welfare check in that there’s nothing contingent because it’s rectifying something that happened in the past, not investing in the future.

This is all semantic because we agree that it’s almost guaranteed to never materialize.

No, it’s rectifying the past in order to improve outcomes in the future. The reason why reparations are talked about isn’t because of what happened over a century ago but because of the current state of things and how for some, it’s a perpetual state of poverty they cannot get out of and neither will their children. If the inner cities were not what they are right now and we saw more blacks in professional jobs and more black students were getting similar test scores to white students and well, if we were not talking about racism and white supremacy, would reparations be a thing?

Damages, war reparations, etc. (edit: generally) don’t come with covenants attached concerning future outcomes. Your second point is essentially asking the question of if there’s a need to examine historical means when the ends are favorable. I suppose this is a matter of opinion but for me the answer is yes, unequivocally.

Hey nice thread @jshaving

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Why should everyone have to struggle. Why can’t we get a choice of whether we want to or not. Tax big corporations and give everyone a check that supports food, water, and shelter. Imagine this and you have a choice of receiving the check or not. Not everyone wants to spend their lives as a corporate slave. Just for the heck of it people can struggle in their hobbies or just work because why not. I’m sure with this big population society could still function if it was that way. That sounds more like freedom to me.

I already kinda addressed this in my first post. Would you consider actually replying to any of the questions I posed to you in my first post?

Life isn’t fair, for one.

I don’t think you have to. It depends on what your goals are, and what you are content with in life.

Freedom = financial independence to you? That’s fine if that’s what you meant, but I’m just checking.

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Life isn’t fair because we made it unfair. Economically, anyway.

I don’t know that we made it unfair, but more so that capitalism was the natural path for a more intelligent animal.

Intelligence is subjective. Capitalism is actually about making the most money possible. When big corporations have so much money they have so much power. These big corporations have so much control over our lives.

Can you explain the effects of “3/5s” on those individuals’ lineages?

The Dr. King We Rarely Hear About | Grand Rapids Institute for Information Democracy (griid.org)

For anyone that parrots MLK look at this.

For some, yes. I don’t think that is the majority though. There are tradeoffs when you try to maximize how much money you make. I actually don’t think I know anyone who is trying to make the most money possible as a capitalist. We all have capital, for the lucky it isn’t their labor. In the middle, it is a combo of labor capital, and non labor capital that hopefully makes money (where I am), and for the lower end, it is all labor capital.

If you don’t want big corporations to have power over you work on being a non labor capital holder. For me, I buy stocks, and hope to one day have them make my money for me instead of trading my labor capital for money.

First, I know you are new here and may not understand where I am coming from. I am not personally attacking you or your beliefs. I am simply trying to understand where you acquired this utopian view of life.

“Struggle” has been essential to the evolution of man since we stood upright on the savannah. Without struggle you simply atrophy and die as both a person and a species. There would be no spears, bows, or nuclear weapons without the struggle to provide food and protection for the tribe.

So, provide an utopian environment where only the Alphas have enough drive to succeed? Its ok with with you living a life supplied by the government?

How long before these "corporations " going to last under this tax? Why do you think major corporations outsource their products to third world countries? They will refuse to do this and either leave or go out of business. Who is going write your check now?

I have never or ever been a corporate slave. Please explain

  • this statement, if you are a corporate slave, please tell what they make you do?*

I have hobbies tied to my work: martial arts, weapons, tactics, archery, ect. The struggle I have is improving every year. That is not a profession , its a hobby. There is a vast difference.

Nothing in your post is about freedom, it is an Orwellian fantasy. If you personally don’t want to work a job or have a career, go for it. I wish you well, me personally? I will never live a worthless and stagnant life, depending on some fantasy government to feed and clothe me like a fat little enfant. FUXK that.

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Major corporations outsource because it’s cheaper. What’s funny is they have enough money in the first place. They shouldn’t have that power over our lives. Of course my post is a fantasy because this country is too greedy for it. Who said I didn’t want a career. I’d be so much happier if I could work without having to worry about money. If anything, my actions go wayyyyy against what I’m saying. Hell yeah I wanna be clothed, fed, and have a house. I welcome all government handouts. If it’s gonna make my life easier then I’ll take it. I’ll save the masochist mindset for when I lift weights.

That articles says the quote comes from a speech that I can’t find anywhere. Are you able to find the original speech? If so, by all means, post it.

I tend to not go off of taken-out-of-context quotes. They really don’t do a good job of giving you a clear idea of what the writer/speaker was truly trying to get across.