The wikipedia section you are quoting about “healthy paranoia” is attributable to an editorial article that you should read.
I think it’s less about being shocked at the actual words, but the manner used. The presidency is a job. A leadership job. I’ve had plenty of bosses and been a boss at two different places. I’ve met tons of people in leadership positions. I don’t know a single one who while on the job and in front of people talks like Trump. Not a one who doesn’t consider what they say, prepare for their remarks, show empathy, take responsibility, etc.
Before Trump was elected we expected Presidents to show leadership and decorum. Not all Presidents have done this behind closed doors obviously Nixon and JFK/Clinton. But publicly? Most of them the vast vast majority of the time. We used to insist on this type of behavior before we would even nominate someone let alone elect them.
I’m by no means a Puritan, but Trump’s behavior in public is disgusting and sub human. I don’t know any rational adult who talks like he does and certainly not anyone doing that while actually in front of people at work. Everyone on here would seek professional help if their dad or mom behaved like Trump. It’s a clear sign of mental illness. People who aren’t mentally ill don’t speak like him. And people who are worthy of being President certainly don’t publicly speak with such disdain about others like he does. Not even talking about his “locker room talk.” His actual day to day speeches and tweets.
Watch 10 random Trump press conferences then watch 10 Obama, Bush, Reagan, Clinton, Bush conferences. The difference will be striking. I don’t care who we elect moving forward. Just give me an adult and someone who has at least once acted like they gave two shits about someone other than themselves.
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Rape is not sexual expression. I don’t think you are a weirdo so I’m probably misunderstanding your point.
I think it’s silly and naive since it’s not something that will stand up in court.
If people were paying attention they would have seen that a long time ago.
You take that back. You take it back right now! Animal House is a classic.
Holy shit so true. In my college bouncing and tending days (in the bars I served at) it was far more likely that an African American stiff the bartender than someone else (except women who by and large were fucking awful at it).
When I tended you better believe I knew exactly who tipped me well and would serve them first from 3 rows deep. Same goes for who stiffed me. I wouldn’t know your name but I knew EXACTLY how much you tipped and what you drank.
As far as bouncing, also true (dress code especially). The shit I saw complained about…
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I generally get where you’re coming form and think I agree, even though I line up more with twojarslave on this one. But this…this is not true if you’re talking busy college or busy neighborhood bar. The bartender is looking to get paid the maximum amount of money they can get in their shift, nothing less. “Fair” has nothing to do with it, it’s a purely economic decision.
This does not apply at higher end bars, or at least not to the same degree by any means, of course.
You are making my point for me. I didn’t take issue with rapists being accused of rape. That’s absurd of you to even mention.
Did you not read the rest of my post you quoted, or did you stop right there? Do you need for me to join the ideas together for you, or can you understand my concern without wondering if I’m a rape advocate?
Guilty as charged, @lucasmon .
There is no veil of objectivity with me when it comes to:
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Trump, and
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The Right’s tolerance, acceptance and respect for Trump vs. what they gave President Obama for eight years.
That’s it.
If history had say McCain or Romney prior to Trump? I would probably be looking at him like the Reality Show buffoon he is and would just say “Eh…the Republic will survive…”
But history didn’t play out that way. The hypocrisy and double standards that exist as you look at what people professed they believed when Obama was President vs. what they accept from and about Trump is just a sore spot for me. I just need for Trump to get on with his next four years so perhaps some level of sanity can be brought back to the Presidency (if that is even possible).
Reports are that the man won’t even attend the unveiling of President’s Obama’s portrait in the White house (which has been a tradition for all sitting President’s for some time now).
So again…no veiled objectivity here.
I’m angry.
Yeah my attempted point was that to me one doesn’t need to be a “Puritan” to be disgusted by Trump’s public behavior. I think conservatives and essentially all on the right should be every bit as embarrassed by it as liberals are. It should be a non partisan expectation. The President should behave like an adult we used to all agree. We knew it didn’t always happen behind closed doors because we’re all human.
But in public knowing the massive power of the words and influence in a how a leader acts? That’s controllable stuff. It’s the reason many of us on here are one way that we would never be at our job. The language used, the expressions, the opinions, etc. This is a free place (just like when I’m with my best friends) because it’s anonymous. We don’t have to consider our words and the impact like we would on a conference call or when I’m speaking to all my team.
I was saying we (essentially all Americans) used to have that level of expectation. Trump’s public behavior alone should have kept Republicans from nominating him. Instead they were all getting hard because he didn’t talk like a politician or something. Turns out in all actuality now we know he doesn’t talk like a politician because he’s not an adult. We’re not used to that at the national level. Both parties have always kicked out the pure lunatics who had no control. They didn’t this time.
I’m a fan of South Park, punk rock, and gangster rap, and comedy. Get me around my friends and family and I’ll share dirty jokes and other seemingly horrible and non “PC” takes perhaps (although to hate the phrase because it doesn’t have consistent meaning).
But Trump offends me because we shouldn’t want that representing us in public. Because we will always differ on policy as Americans. We don’t all think government should do the same thing. But after this obviously failed experiment in letting someone with that temperament lead we should all agree that we want to go back to adults as the President.
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This is an excellent post - but makes me think: why is your (very good) explanation required? Why in 2020 do we have to walk through the logic and common sense that the most powerful man in the universe should behave in public with at least the decency and decorum and competence of a garden variety business conference call?
EDIT: I’m thinking about the political discourse from 2008 to 2016. Doesn’t matter which side you were on - Obama was a smart guy and it was all about what he was about, his constitutional responsibilities, whatever. Fast forward to now and we’re having to revisit why, no, it’s really not great in leadership to appear to be a drunken baboon in front a podium. Insane.
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I know you are thinking Trump will win again, but don’t like him. You seem pretty convinced on his election.
Do you think that confidence could be stemming from 2016? Polls were mostly wrong then. IMO, many people are overcorrecting and giving Trump a sure victory, when I’m thinking it will be very close. 2016 involved Hillary. As much as I’m not impressed with Biden, I don’t think he is nearly as hated.
It absolutely shouldn’t. But I have seen his behavior hand waved away and dismissed on here often by many posters. We’d be better represented from a random name in the phone book.
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You want to know what true objectivity is in all of this? I’ll give it to you:
@thunderbolt23 was as objectively critical of President Obama as anyone on this Forum. (I’ll let him tell you what his issues with President Obama were).
The point is, he criticized him on all levels. So what’s the difference?
He criticizes Trump with the same critical eye that he criticized President Obama. With @thunderbolt23, Trump gets no more or less than what President Obama got .
That’s an objectivity that is very hard to have…and I respect him for it.
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Good question, @mnben87.
My feeling is that Biden hasn’t seen even a fraction of the Hell that will be unleashed on him by the Conservative Machine (and yes, with some aide from Putin and Russian Operatives).
And much like the 16 or so that Trump crushed in the last GOP Presidential Primaries…I don’t think Biden will hold up well in debates with Trump (who is the master of deny, defer and attack).
I just don’t think “Anyone-but-Trump” will be enough.
MAGA.
4 more years.
Who do you think would win in 2016 if Biden had been the candidate?
You’re kind, and I try to be, though I’m sure I’m not as objective as you say. But - it’s a priority of mine to demand consistency: I’ve been on this forum for years and heard endless talk of principles. Well, you damn well better be consistent if you’ve professed them - example, if executive overreach was bad when Obama when did it, it’s bad when Trump does it.
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I think it will be close with Trump as a slight favorite. Largely because people don’t like change and Trump remains insanely popular on the right and those people will show up to vote for him even though he’s as far from conservative. The economy is going to have a ton of pent up demand and he’s going to give away a shit ton of money. Biden simply can’t do that.
I wouldn’t be surprised with another electoral college victory and popular vote loss for Dems. Biden is not even remotely as despised as Hilary was. Dems ran the only person who could lose to Trump in 2016. And she still got 3 million more votes. Trump hasn’t ever been popular himself.
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To be fair, Obama has not exactly followed the tradition of not criticizing his successor. I do think it makes Trump look small, though. There is no way anyone handling Trump would allow him to sit down with Obama and take questions from the media. The contrast between the way they handle themselves might even wake up some of the MAGA hats wearing people.
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Yeah you don’t want to remind anyone that this is what the last President sounded like and compare that to a typical Trump press conference or interview.
