The Push to 2020 Has Begun!

Why do all social media sites need to behave the same way? You have tons of places to express all sorts of views across the internet. It’s not like Twitter is the sole place you can do it.

Instead of being mad at Twitter why not just insist the President not be awful on their website? Hell Twitter has been losing users for a long time, they even stopped reporting how many. Maybe if Trump kept a promise this wouldn’t even be a discussion. Instead in the midst of a global pandemic this is what he’s focused on.

Trumps own words-

He added, "Don’t worry, I’ll give it up after I’m president. We won’t tweet anymore. I don’t know. Not presidential.”

The remark comes days after wife Melania remarked that she wished her husband would tone down his Twitter habit.

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Here’s the problem with his thinking: it does not work as a business model. Take this site for example. If we could all post whatever we wanted what would happen? It would lose a lot of its posters. If we could post all the racist crap we wanted, many posters would leave. If posters could post terrible exercise and supplement advice unchecked (to the point it was dangerous), this site would disappear.

@H_factor I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear. This is not just about Twitter and Donald Trump, but the role we expect social media to play. I’m not sure how else I can explain the broader concern. It is above, if you care to read it.Or look up users by social media platform to get a sense of the scale, if you don’t take my word for it.

I’m not suggesting turning it into a public utility, but I don’t understand how the current situation is desirable unless your long-term outcome is a social media landscape more like China’s than what we are accustomed to. That’s fine, if you like the idea of social media in an activist role where you believe transnational tech giants are the good guys. Just say so.

WeChat, for example, has very strong controls that do a very good job of monitoring what is said and making sure that the end-user only gets content that has been scrutinized by the right people. They just take it a few steps further, plus they have a more intimate relationship with the ruling party, which is a really good idea when there is only one ruling party.

Oh you’re a business expert now, in addition to knowing more about laws than a lawyer?

Are you suggesting that if my rather simple model would be implemented, Twitter would somehow cease to be viable?

How does any of what I’m talking about lead to the collapse of their business model?

Time to whip out the old liberal standby. Misrepresenting the argument and then move on to character attacks.

If you don’t agree with me, you are a terrible person (or have no soul). There is no possibility that someone might see things different than I do and still have good intentions. I just can’t get my head around that!

That says a lot more about you than it does about me.

For someone who claims to read history, this should be a very easy question to answer.

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I would actually be onboard with your “elected official account” label. But I don’t think you will be able to achieve what is quoted above. I’ve given this a lot of thought over the past few years (before Trump), and I simply don’t think it is possible right now. This is because with any information request we already tacitly give the search algorithm permission to filter results.

There is only one way to get a filter to work and that is to apply human intuition at some stage of the process. Even machine learning and AI models require inputs to be trained on, and the choice of those inputs is at the mercy of a human operator…both their biases and their intelligence.

I’m not familiar with how China handles social media on the whole. I don’t think it’s close to the same as the US.

Even if Twitter went full on liberal only mode (they haven’t even came close) wouldn’t this only really matter if that was the only outlet? If T-Nation banned anything against white supremacy I would simply go elsewhere. To the countless other places where I could discuss politics. What we have (best as I can tell) is a website that has done certain things because they don’t want certain things associated with them. Which is pretty common across the whole of the net. T-Nation has banned posters for all sorts of things. It doesn’t happen a lot but it happens. Are you ok with the activism displayed by the forum you post on so much?

I can’t say whatever I want here and I can’t say whatever I want in many places. I can’t go to McDonalds and say I want to kill all black people in a megaphone. Even in MAGA country like where I’m from where confederate flags adorn many houses and license plates I’ll probably be told to leave and that they don’t want that associated with them.

If I get banned from T-Nation for saying I want to kill every black person that’s activism? So the entire internet should have zero rules regarding speech. Even if I start my own website and forum I don’t have the power to ban you for saying hateful things.

Again I’d be more inclined to side with you in a sense where a monopoly existed. We aren’t even remotely close to that in the US landscape of social media. If Twitter won’t let you say that you have countless others that will.

Why do I have to believe tech giants are the good guys to think it’s ok if they run their site as they like? Seems like the right had no problem saying don’t force me to bake a gay cake you can go elsewhere and find someone that will. But now they can’t go elsewhere? Even when elsewhere doesn’t even require leaving the house?

As an unrelated side note, I find this subculture fascinating. There is no end to the number of people who fly the Confederate flag proudly as “rebel sons” and yet also hate racism…I think Brad Paisley even did a song about it (“Accidental Racist”, whose lyrics are thought provoking). Side side note, Paisley is one of my favorite song writers in any genre.

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The fact you ignore that behavior says a lot more about you. The fact you take a behavior that has nothing to do with politics and make it a political issue says even more. Yeah, saying that calling a man’s dead wife a whore is despicable is a political opinion. You aren’t embarrassed to even suggest that?

Not for you it seems.

Because not everyone is as tolerant of vile behavior as you.

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Oh I’m sure some of those exist no doubt. In my experience at least where I’m from this isn’t proud rebel sons. They were born in a free state and their parents were born in a free state, etc. What’s odd is these people will fly what’s ultimately a flag of treason, but flip out if anyone has a flag of another country. And while many people talk about how these protests should be peaceful (and I agree) they flipped the fuck out when an athlete kneeled during the anthem in protest. Or when basketball players wore I can’t breathe shirts.

And while I don’t think everyone who flies a confederate flag is racist I do think it’s very common. My first thought personally isn’t there goes another proud southern son.

I’m more into 90s country but I do think I like some of his songs and I remember accidental racist.

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I simply had to post Key & Peele here.

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Since I know nothing about business I’ll ask, would allowing everyone and anyone to post whatever they want be a good decision or would it lead to the demise of this forum?

The fact all of these various sites have terms of service shows that they, who obviously know more about business than I, believe it’s in their best interests to moderate what happens on their platforms.

I’ll raise you this one. In fairness I haven’t listened to modern country in a long time really, but still a fan of the peak Garth/Strait/Brooks and Dunn etc eras.

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Oh I agree completely. That’s why I said the subculture fascinates me.

I dig older country, I am not a fan of modern country overall, save a few exceptions like Paisley.

It’s also odd that many are talking about this because of Trump (not specifically saying twojar, but Trump is why this is a currently big topic) and saying first amendment. Have we ever had a president who has attacked the first amendment consistently more than him?

Read again. Section 230 protects social media even when they “censor” - meaning, remove or restrict access to content - as long as the censoring was done in good faith, and the statute basically gives the company to decide what it wants in this space (“otherwise objectionable”). In short, Section 230 gives near absolute protection even for censoring.

What you described isn’t even censoring - the original content is still there, remains accessible, and has not been restricted. Fact checking doesn’t even rise to the level of (protected, in any event) censoring.

Then go find another feed. You don’t have to utilize their services to get your news.

Yes, it is that simple and no, there aren’t government regulations designed to prevent Right Wing Twitter from emerging.

Yes, one (Standard Oil) had the ability to limit distribution channels, the other has no such ability. Twitter and Facebook have exactly no monopoly on news - again, I consider myself well-informed and I have no Twitter account and I only use Facebook for funny cat videos.

Btw, I’m no fan of these social media platforms for other reasons (privacy concerns, snooping, etc.), but the idea that we need to regulate their speech because they have some monopoly on our information is based on a nonsensical premise.

That’s exactly wrong and backwards - the service is free so no one is competing on cost to consumer. You have the ability to join Twitter, hate it, quit it, and still get all the news and information from Twitter for the same cost.

At the end of this, all you have is one thing - anger that social media are liberal in spirit and picking on conservative points of view (if they even are - fact checking a pathological liar isn’t picking on anyone). But they are private entities and you have thousands of options. There’s no reason to have the government step in and start regulating speech - especially this government, which no sane person can trust to be fair and even handed even if we thought we somehow thought we needed regulation.

@zecarlo:

Can I give you a perspective from someone who has been here since almost the beginning?

The answer (IMO) is that it would die a quick death. Again this is just my perspective.

(These are all just my thoughts. I have no inside tract to T-Nations history and or buisness development over the years).

I have always thought that Tim Patterson and TC Luoma were always way ahead of the game in not only recognizing the direction commerce was going, but in recognizing the power of the internet and it’s eventual place in commerce. They also recognized their market, and how important discussion Forums were, and had become, going all the way back to perhaps the old text only “alt” message boards/forums.

It also became obvious that if not moderated; these Forums could not only become detrimental to your overall business model; they could destroy the very business you were trying to build. That has been proven. Trolls and actual corporate saboteurs and competors can destroy anything and everything you try to build,

You either moderate Forums with Terms of Service…or don’t have Forums at all. (At one time; T-Nation actually had a full-time group of moderators).

Now; there are probably 1000’s of reasons why T-Nation has survived over the years (the most important of which, IMO, is their owners and leadership); but keeping open, moderated Forums is perhaps one of those reasons.

(Again…this is all just my opinion from the outside; and to all of the Trolls and Haters over the years who accused me of being Tim or TC or a T-Nation shill? I’ll say the same thing I said then…fuck you. I am am just a guy grateful to Tim and TC for what they created 20-plus years ago).

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Seems pertinent.

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It was an article on fish oil and inflammation by TC, yeah he was pushing Biotest fish oil, that made me start using it and stop consuming certain foods, and it changed my life (no exaggeration either). So I guess I’m a shill too.

I also was introduced to Dan John because of this site and that was, to use John’s words, a game changer.

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That’s what’s funny about his defenders; they actually think that EO was about freedom. It was a childish tantrum by someone who doesn’t like being told no (especially by a “kid” with a ring in his nose) and is too dumb to realize he doesn’t have a choice.

No doubt. It’s not like he would give a shit if a fact check is on anyone else. Trump only thinks about himself. Attack others is fine. Attack me?! “I’ll use the full power of the US government to stop people!”

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