The Problem of Politics

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Eli B wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

The nature of man was certainly expressed through government during the 20th century, to the tune of 200 million corpses at the hands of various governments. If this is not a refutation of government it’s difficult to know what is.[/quote]

And how is this different than any other century?

“Governments” don’t kill humans - humans have always had governments, and humans have always killed other humans. They always have, and they always will - for power, for money, for love, for revenge, for honor. Humans haven’t changed, only the size and scope of their weapons.

The 20th century wasn’t dominated by “governments” - it was dominated by “ideologies” acting through governments. The government is the agent.

My kingdom for a “libertarian” with even a fifth grader’s understading of basic history.[/quote]

Hunter gatherer groups would have had more relaxed forms of government. More likely meritocratic spheres of influence.

It was agriculture and city life that lead to big government.[/quote]

Industrialization. As soon as industrialization started to mass produce wealth it encouraged the parasites (those averse to productive work) to figure out new ways to loot private citizens of that wealth.

In a way capitalism can be said to be to blame for big government.[/quote]

Right. Even the proto-industrialization of ancient Mesopotamia that arose from the surpluses porduced in settled agrarian life as opposed to nomadic or semi-nomadic life.

22

[quote]Eli B wrote:
Right. Even the proto-industrialization of ancient Mesopotamia that arose from the surpluses porduced in settled agrarian life as opposed to nomadic or semi-nomadic life.[/quote]

Word!

Wealth can only be acquired a few ways:

  1. from nature in its unowned state – homesteading
  2. by our own labor
  3. voluntary exchange or charity
  4. theft

Government is just a cute way to justify theft.

23

[quote]Oleena wrote:This is a guess at best, it’s certainly not fact with evidence backing it.

It seems to me that man’s highest degrees of compassion are NOT obtained when he submits to a system of powerplays, but rather when he separates himself from it and spends his time on things the political system doesnt deem important, such as those at the very bottom of it, spending time in nature, giving away worldly powers such as money, prestige, and control, living apart from society, and questioning authority. At least, thats what it seemed to me that Jesus was trying to get people to do.[/quote]2 things here. 1. Implicit in this statement appears to be the a priori notion that “compassion”, whatever that exactly means (though I’m sure you’ll enlighten us) is the ultimate and primary object of human existence.

  1. Jesus was not “trying” to, or get other people to primarily DO anything. He was in His very person the self proclaimed promised messiah sent from the Father to take away the sins of the world. He was not a hip n groovy flower child preaching I’m ok you’re ok if we could us all get along and accept each as we are.
24

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
“Politics is the business of getting power and privilege without possessing merit. A politician is anyone who asks individuals to surrender part of their liberty – their power and privilege – to State, Masses, Mankind, Planet Earth, or whatever. This state, those masses, that mankind, and the planet will then be run by … politicians.” – P. J. O’Rourke

“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” – Robert A Heinlein

The problem of politics is that its essential feature is that of controlling mankind. A politician is a person who spends his day trying to figure ways in which he can prevent man from doing what comes naturally to him and forcing him to do that which he considers to be repugnant.[/quote]

Except the nature of man isn’t the savage, it’s the highest form of himself, which can never come to him by anarchy.[/quote]

This is a guess at best, it’s certainly not fact with evidence backing it.

It seems to me that man’s highest degrees of compassion are NOT obtained when he submits to a system of powerplays, but rather when he separates himself from it and spends his time on things the political system doesnt deem important, such as those at the very bottom of it, spending time in nature, giving away worldly powers such as money, prestige, and control, living apart from society, and questioning authority. At least, thats what it seemed to me that Jesus was trying to get people to do.[/quote]

And, why do you think that is what Jesus was trying to get people to do?

25

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
“Politics is the business of getting power and privilege without possessing merit. A politician is anyone who asks individuals to surrender part of their liberty – their power and privilege – to State, Masses, Mankind, Planet Earth, or whatever. This state, those masses, that mankind, and the planet will then be run by … politicians.” – P. J. O’Rourke

“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” – Robert A Heinlein

The problem of politics is that its essential feature is that of controlling mankind. A politician is a person who spends his day trying to figure ways in which he can prevent man from doing what comes naturally to him and forcing him to do that which he considers to be repugnant.[/quote]

Except the nature of man isn’t the savage, it’s the highest form of himself, which can never come to him by anarchy.[/quote]

This is a guess at best, it’s certainly not fact with evidence backing it.

It seems to me that man’s highest degrees of compassion are NOT obtained when he submits to a system of powerplays, but rather when he separates himself from it and spends his time on things the political system doesnt deem important, such as those at the very bottom of it, spending time in nature, giving away worldly powers such as money, prestige, and control, living apart from society, and questioning authority. At least, thats what it seemed to me that Jesus was trying to get people to do.[/quote]

And, why do you think that is what Jesus was trying to get people to do?[/quote]

Why, change their nature?

Which would imply that they were rather savage?

26

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
“Politics is the business of getting power and privilege without possessing merit. A politician is anyone who asks individuals to surrender part of their liberty – their power and privilege – to State, Masses, Mankind, Planet Earth, or whatever. This state, those masses, that mankind, and the planet will then be run by … politicians.” – P. J. O’Rourke

“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” – Robert A Heinlein

The problem of politics is that its essential feature is that of controlling mankind. A politician is a person who spends his day trying to figure ways in which he can prevent man from doing what comes naturally to him and forcing him to do that which he considers to be repugnant.[/quote]

Except the nature of man isn’t the savage, it’s the highest form of himself, which can never come to him by anarchy.[/quote]

This is a guess at best, it’s certainly not fact with evidence backing it.

It seems to me that man’s highest degrees of compassion are NOT obtained when he submits to a system of powerplays, but rather when he separates himself from it and spends his time on things the political system doesnt deem important, such as those at the very bottom of it, spending time in nature, giving away worldly powers such as money, prestige, and control, living apart from society, and questioning authority. At least, thats what it seemed to me that Jesus was trying to get people to do.[/quote]

And, why do you think that is what Jesus was trying to get people to do?[/quote]

Do you mean what in the Bible makes me think that’s what Jesus was trying to get people to do? Jesus was creating an example with his life and that’s how he chose to live. In addition, that’s how his disciples, and many of the previous prophets lived their lives.

As for why he did so, I answered that in my second sentence.