[quote]pushharder wrote:
George Bush was an executive and that didn’t work out so well.
That’s an opinion of yours that I happen not to share.
[/quote]
To each his own. America isn’t a smoking crater, nor are we all shitting in gold toilets. Could be better, could be worse. I want it to be better than it has been.
man have you seen some of the shadows in those pictures?? Not natural!! Sure she has been in the executive, but we all know Alaska doesn’t face the same issues as the rest of the states. Two months ago, if everyone on this forum made a list of their top 10 desired candidates for McCain’s VP I don’t think Governor Sarah Palin would have been on a single one.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Ren wrote:
…Like other people said, that whole “golly gee whiz” schtick got old real fast.
I can understand why big city folks would feel this way. Small town and country folks like me don’t have a problem with it.
No big deal; some of us take off our boots at the end of the day and some of us take off our Gucci loafers. I bet I know what you’ve been wearing.[/quote]
McCain is the only person I know of with $500 loafers.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
So now you’re a self proclaimed authority on the issues that Alaska faces and you have eminently determined they are inconsequential and one of the two mighty senators from Delaware (which happens to have a population similar to that of Alaska’s) possesses a fountain of untapped executive experience despite the fact that he has never served as an executive?
Looks like you could use some more experience in formulating your thought processes.
[/quote]
Has McCain served as an executive??
How much of Alaska’s gross product comes from one industry? Seventy, eighty percent? Yeah, thats just like all the other states. How is Alaska illegal immigrant problem? How’s the Alaskan urban landscape? I didn’t say Alaska was inconsequential, but they have a whole different set of issues.
[quote]
Yes, boorek, my dear friend, The Great Plagiarizer does have D.C. experience but that is precisely why Palin is so attractive to so many. She doesn’t. And to be untainted by the vat of used motor oil that is Washington, D.C. really, really does appeal to me. And I don’t think I’m alone.[/quote]
How long is that going to last? The world is not going to change for her. The legislature will not change for her. She will change and become one of the boys. She has a good start already with the skirting of public record laws by conducting public business via private e-mail. Rove would be proud.
George Bush was an executive and that didn’t work out so well.
That’s an opinion of yours that I happen not to share.
[/quote]
Are you kidding me? THe country is in a financial meltdown, been in a war costing 10 billion a month (or is it a week) for the last 6 or so years. Unemployment is at an all time high and the housing market has collapsed and you think things worked out ok with bush?
I guess from that point of view you must have the most skewed view of reality. You probably feel that “greed and corruption on wall st” caused everything. Have you ever read about McCains economic advisor? This is the genius that deregulated the cd’s market which many people, inclusing myself, believe heavily contributed to the current financial meltdown. These are the people you want in charge for another 4 years?
As far as the debate goes, this was the biggest farce I have ever seen. Palin decided not to answer 75% of the questions and then just blamed everything on wall st or told Biden to stop looking into the past. Also taking a shot at his dead wife wasnt particuarly classy. Frankly I would have walked over and punched her in the throat. I can not see how any rational person can vote republican this election day (or the last one for that matter). Strictly looking at the economic factors alone both McCain and Palin have openly admitted they have no idea about economics and his advisor is a complete moron. The above should be enough for people to vote democrat despite the fact that Palin would not be allowed to hold scissors in most other areas of the world let alone run for VP.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
I call it a draw overall, but what the public as a whole thinks is what determines who won.
I just cannot stand Biden so I may not be a neutral observer.
I actually like Biden and also thought it was a close to a draw. Even though I disagree with Joe on most things but he is also the guy, off of either ticket, that I would most want to have beer with.
Neither one of them did any harm to the ticket. Overall it was pretty boring. Both seemed to wander off on to their talking points rather than answer the question asked. They both stumbled through some things as well.
There were times, for both of them, that I was unsure what they were trying say. Joe came off a bit bitter at times railing on bush. Palin had one too many “golly gee wiz” moments for me.[/quote]
This comes pretty close to summing up my opinion, especially the boring part. I was actually hoping Joe would get a little more condescending to spice it up.
There were a few times I had no idea what Palin was taking about with here ramblings and run-on sentences. There were also times I had no idea what Joe was talking about either, because he speaks like a typical politician trying to enforce his point, when he has one, with generic talking points.
Then again, maybe they both made perfect sense I was just dozing off.
[quote]gsxtacy wrote:
I can not see how any rational person can vote republican this election day …[/quote]
To be fair, I can’t see how any rational person can vote democrat this election day.
Seriously, this is the best this country can do? I mean, I’m a registered democrat, but have only voted democrat once at the federal level. What is wrong with this party? There are some decent democrats out there, but these clowns get the nomination and the press. Where’s Bill Richardson? Ted Strickland? Dan Boren? Hell, Mike Gravel is still pretty far left, but at least he’s fucking honest.
Geezuz, the MSM just absolutely HATES Palin. She is taking a lot of flack for her “Joe sixpack” comment. According to them, Biden won the debate 50000000% to -1000000%
Why are they being so condescending? They ought to just come out and say it “We in the main stream media, hate McCain, Palin, Bush and the Republican party, adn anyone who votes Republican this year is a stupid, ugly, fart-face!”
She should have said at some point that she was a new comer, that she hadn’t been in Washington through the Nixon Admin, Ford Admin, Carter Admin, both Reagan Admins, Bush 1 Admin, both Clinton Admins, and Both Bush Admins. When you lay out just how long Biden has been there it sounds terrible.
Palin did well. Biden held his own and didn’t commit a gaffe. The comparison of a career politician vs. a relative newcomer are excellent. Taken in this context she is very good.
Palin didn’t answer a lot of the questions directly because of the nature of the questions asked and the attempts to frame the response by Biden. He is a good debater but not good enough to trap Palin.
Although Ifill appeared to be fair, her choice of questions were telling. Palin answered questions about energy because Ifill refused to ask them. Ditto for abortion and gun control. Biden is a supporter of the assault weapons ban, Palin a lifestime NRA member. Biden is a catholic who supports abortion, Palin against it. Palin is the governor of a top energy producing state, Biden opposes any sort of increase in domestic production by any means.
Do you think the opposing views on these issues would have been interesting to the public. Of course they would but they were answsers that Palin would have killed Biden with, thus they were not asked. Only strong Democratic issues were relevant to Ifill.
Biden refused to answer direct questions 6 times, Palin 10 times. However the answers Palin gave were designed to get her and McCain’s position out. Biden evaded answering to conceal his positions. Big difference.
If all the Dems can bitch about is how her voice sounds then Palin had a big win overall. This is going to be a revelation to the psuedo intellectuals on the coasts but that’s how most people sound in America. You know that vast middle class you claim to support? That’s how real people with real jobs sound. Palin has overwhelming support among them, however those folks don’t get to pontificate on TV shows. Obama mocks them as clinging to guns and religion instead of worshipping the chosen one.
We know that partisan talking heads and campaign people are biased. That’s a given.
However; ANY media outlet that declares a clear winner of this debate is biased.
Now RJ brings up an important point. If Palin “held her own” with a 35 year Veteran of politics, is it a “win”?
On a personal level, it certainly is. Biden has debated most of these issues, (most likely ad-nauseum), for most of his life; heck, its his job. She went against a Pro, and while at times understandably nervous, did what she had to do.
Now; was it all enough to put distance between the two campaigns in the eyes of the public?
Probably not.
As someone said, the VP candidates did their job; its now up to McCain and Obama.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
rainjack wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Spot on RJ, Biden should be more articulate with so much experience with politics.
But if holding her own is a major victory, what is that saying about her? She could be 2nd in command of this country and I dont feel comfortable about someone who has to struggle with just holding her own.
You should be more worried about a career politician who had to struggle to barely held his own against a mother of five from Alaska.
She had to struggle against herself. If you have to focus on not screwing up, rather than your opponent, you have already made it very hard for yourself.
And Biden didn’t? I didn’t see her struggle at all. I saw her being nervous.
Tell me where you saw her struggle.
If facial expressions count for anything, Biden seemed to be the one struggling.
And the tears? Please. I will probably only say this once in my lifetime, but lixy was right.
What would you have thought had Palin started up the water works?
[/quote]
She should have gone over and given him a motherly hug
If the Obama campaign and any voter doubts the “folksy/gee-whiz/hockey mom/giggly cheerleader” appeal of Palin…they are going to be completely blindsided come November.
Biden may be respected on some corners; but this woman is LOVED…
Discount this appeal, or keep writing it off as lacking substance…and you’ll see Palin wielding that gavel in the Senate Chambers.
They both did well. No one “wiped the floor” with any one else - both candidates got a chance to make their points within the context of the questions.
Biden is a good communicator, and frankly should be at the top of the Democratic ticket, not the bottom.
Palin did well, despite battling short stretches of nerves. She was prepared, articulate, and willing to riff a little. She did fine.
A few things:
-Biden continued to spin the fiction of “deregulation!!” as the cause of the financial meltdown, and Palin should have been prepared to immediately attack it. She could have done it within the theme she and McCain are trying to push of “more oversight/cracking the whip on Wall Street”.
-Palin did a good job of highlighting Biden’s convenient position reversals without beating a dead horse.
-Biden has very good policy knowledge, and can field questions very naturally. She showed none of the gaffes that have made him famous, and made his case well.
-Biden gave a particularly bad answer on what position he has changed over the years, but the Left wouldn’t think it at all bad - that being turning the selection of judges into policy-based ideological warfare - and I wouldn’t be too confident it would resonate with undecided voters.