TB, again I think they have more of a problem with the influx of immigrants and the welfare state. Those two things are a toxic mix.
I have been reading this thread and Raj and Max seem to be dancing around this. It gets to the root cause of their grievances with legal and in some cases illegal immigration. I think they are more worried about the drain on citizens as opposed to seeing too many brown people at the grocery store.
This.
The Raj has said in the past that one of the issues with Muslim immigrants is that they do not assimilate; yet, he is not assimilating either.
It’s odd, to say the least.
For the record, I seriously doubt anyone here supports the government not enforcing immigration laws. If Latino’s feel they don’t have to follow the law that’s on them and I couldn’t care less. The government must enforce the laws on the books.
We have an enforcement problem not necessarily a policy problem.
Further, on the topic of laws, I find it interesting that some of the Republican’s/Conservatives in here are pushing for The Government to create a litmus test for immigrating into the United States, which empowers the federal government even more so than now. Did we not learn our lesson after the Patriot Act?
The issue is that the immigrant portion of the enormous problem that is the welfare state is minuscule. It’s like telling your doctor your toe hurts while bleeding out from a gun shot wound.
I agree that this is probably the case for Max.
Is blind subjugation to government programs your idea of assimilation?
Careful.
This very idea you propose here is similar to what makes many Democrats dislike our current deportation policy and want to revise it.
I’m happy to entertain new thoughts and ideas but they have to be based on something tangible
In regards to this I don’t see anything odd about that position. Immigration is one of the few things I would consider very much within the federal government’s purview–it is part and parcel of the ‘national welfare’. I do agree that the way this government currently behaves they will use it to grab as much possible power as they can, but that’s a problem with behavior rather than authority.
I’d agree with this regarding Max–and it’s probably more important considering the drain on California where he lives. Raj I’m not so sure
I do agree with Max that any litmus test regarding intelligence will inevitably carry a race factor due to differences in education levels across different immigrant ethnicities (not due to actual intelligence or IQ, but attained education level and differences in national systems). It’s unavoidable if one is going to implement that kind of test. So one can say “race shouldn’t be a factor” and I would agree, but with any test there will be winners and losers on a statistical curve and that means that there will be some level of correlation between different ethnicities and entrance test “passing” levels.
That has been my view for years.
Long story short: My brother met a woman when he was in Chile. Foolishly married her before she was a citizen. Put ring on finger and she turned into a monster. Her application failed and she ran. INS was at best indifferent (this is in western PA, not so-cal). He actually had to set up the sting himself to have her arrested/deported.
I think zeb’s point can be boiled down into one sentence:
“It’s the issues, stupid.”
His list are the issues he cares about.
In the end, I agree. We don’t not have good, quality affable people running for president. One is a pathological liar, corrupt as it gets, the other is an orange clown, dim witted.
When you don’t have good people supporting the issues you care about, you still have the issues as your guide.
I am not ultimately voting for a person, I am voting on forwarding the issues I care about and I think are best for the country, despite who the person is.
This does not have to be as murky as it seems. Screw, who is running. Vote on the issues that matter to you. If you keep that in focus, you have clarity.
Just lol…
It is not that I find it odd that people want the government to create and enforce immigration law. I find it odd that people want the government to create a litmus test for who can and cannot enter this country. Let me say that again,The Government will be creating a test to decide who can and cannot immigrate to this country based on what The Government decides is appropriate, which, of course, will change over time.
Future administrations will be deciding the litmus tests of the future and they will also try and increase their power/authority.
Yeah, I am aware of the pitfalls associated with a litmus test. The only question then is–on what basis do you personally rather we create immigration laws instead of that? If we are going to filter who we allow to immigrate how do we effectively do that without creating a litmus test of some kind?
The enforcement I take as a given even though it is not currently being done.
Let’s start from the beginning. Do you like the current way the government selects US immigrants?
That is mostly by:
Lottery + Immediate family sponsorship
The process should be first come first serve, period. I think we should run a background check against any and all databases we have access to, possible install a short (maybe 6 month) wait period, and then give them the opportunity to come here on a temp to permanent basis, legally. I think they should also have to meet certain expectations; have a job within 6 months, for example. The required expectations are certainly debatable so I’m not going to list a whole bunch, but I do think immigrants should be expected to do certain things. If they don’t meet set expectations then, see ya.
That, at least to me, is not the same as limiting or excluding immigrants from Chile because their IQ is less than 80 or Egypt because they’re Muslim.
Should they be required to Speak english?
I think they should be required to take and pass an English class. I’m not really sure how you’d force someone to speak English.
Okay. What I meant was they are fluent in English when they enter the country.
Currently you don’t have to know English to immigrate to the United States
No, I don’t think that is necessary and it’s too subjective for me anyway. “Fluent” could mean all sorts of things.
The less room the government has the better, imo.
I wrote class. I really meant test.
Things were not perfect before. But, sheesh Mufasa blacks were not assassinating Police Officers were they?
Come on now where do you think the root of the problem arose from. Here’s a clue it wasn’t George Bush
So wrong, so very wrong. When the Irish, Italians, Polish and all the other nationalities immigrated to America they wanted badly to learn the American culture and be a part of it. They learned the language and were glad to do it. Yes, they kept many of their old world ways but they acclimated to our culture just fine.
Now compare that to the illegals that hop the border.
You just nailed it.
Once they learn it and they are surrounded by it they will most likely speak it at least most of the time.