[quote]CELTIC-DEVIL wrote:
Interesting info bushy, thanks.
Personally, I’ve stayed away from winny (although I have used it in the past) because of the joint and blood lipid effects. Never really did much for me anyway…
Kind of off topic but I also did a var only cycle recently, mostly out of curiosity…60mg per day for 7 weeks. In know var is supposedly mild in terms of sides but by the 6th or 7th week my urine was definitly darker…I also sometimes noticed a “tender” feeling right about where my liver was located. No dull ache as such, or pain of any sort. More of a sensation.But I have exerienced this very same feling on 50mg Dbol per day. I got it only sometimes, when I was walking at a brisk pace.
Decided to end the cycle at that point and loaded up on antioxidants. Wasnt really worried about liver damage, but I wanted to err on the side of caution.
[/quote]
Not really on topic anymore, but I’m just finishing a 4 week Winny cycle and have gained a solid 10lbs and increased weights on all my lifts. Haven’t really experienced any side effects except back pumps, the odd pimple here and there, and my rotator cuff/shoulder started aching 2nd day into the 4th week. I started loading up on Glucosamine and now the aching is almost gone.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Prisoner#22 wrote:
Truthfully I would be more concerned in the short term about renal damage then liver damage.
It is the kidneys that take the brunt of the damage.
Especially competitve bodybuilders like myself.
When you refer to the kidneys, do you mean that the competition ‘lifestyle’ of dehydration and sodium loading etc are placing the load on the kidneys, along with having to deal with myoglobin etc from training-induced muscle damage? I’m not familiar with any AAS-induced kidney stressors, specifically…[/quote]
Everything from the drugs, the high levels of protein, to the Contest dieting which is the hardest - drying out for a show, then blowing up like a balloon following.
Renal damage is so insideous. There are no real symptoms.
Also I would hate to take a fall, or have an MVA like Flex Wheeler did. The rhabdomyolysis could easily due huge damage to someone like us.
As for the protein and the drugs, My theory is due to the large amount of muscle I carry that sucks up all this protein and AAS, The kidneys are protected to a certain extent.
I wonder if I only weighed 160 and injested/ injected what i do, if the load on the kidneys would be too great.
yeah, in the hospital when we get in patients who were found at home, and had been on the floor for some time, usually their myoglobin is through the roof, and we have to give them amps of bicarb to help flush it out of their kidneys.
Makes me wonder what kind of stress athletes put their kidneys through, who are involved in extreme contact sports.
…to the OP: you can never be sure how your body will respond until you start using. A few mild cycles topped off with 20 days of Lr3-IGF1 had me hospitalized for 2 weeks, off work for 4 months and i’m still on Prednison as we speak.
My bilirubin livervalues skyrocketed well into the 700’s and 15 to 20 is normal. I have cirrosis of the liver, can’t drink my favourite beer anymore, haven’t been in the gym for 6 months now and look like nothing much, scared the shit out of those i love and for what?
…there is no long term benefit of AAS use, unless you continue to use. We can’t all be Serge Nubret when we’re 60…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…to the OP: you can never be sure how your body will respond until you start using. A few mild cycles topped off with 20 days of Lr3-IGF1 had me hospitalized for 2 weeks, off work for 4 months and i’m still on Prednison as we speak.
My bilirubin livervalues skyrocketed well into the 700’s and 15 to 20 is normal. I have cirrosis of the liver, can’t drink my favourite beer anymore, haven’t been in the gym for 6 months now and look like nothing much, scared the shit out of those i love and for what?
…there is no long term benefit of AAS use, unless you continue to use. We can’t all be Serge Nubret when we’re 60…[/quote]
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…to the OP: you can never be sure how your body will respond until you start using. A few mild cycles topped off with 20 days of Lr3-IGF1 had me hospitalized for 2 weeks, off work for 4 months and i’m still on Prednison as we speak.
My bilirubin livervalues skyrocketed well into the 700’s and 15 to 20 is normal. I have cirrosis of the liver, can’t drink my favourite beer anymore, haven’t been in the gym for 6 months now and look like nothing much, scared the shit out of those i love and for what?
…there is no long term benefit of AAS use, unless you continue to use. We can’t all be Serge Nubret when we’re 60…[/quote]
Have the doctors linked your liver problems to your AAS use?
I saw from your previous posts that you have hepatatis (and had it in the past also??), so I’m just curious if this is really a result of AAS use or some other factors? Sorry, not calling you a liar or anything, I’m just curious…
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…to the OP: you can never be sure how your body will respond until you start using. A few mild cycles topped off with 20 days of Lr3-IGF1 had me hospitalized for 2 weeks, off work for 4 months and i’m still on Prednison as we speak.
My bilirubin livervalues skyrocketed well into the 700’s and 15 to 20 is normal. I have cirrosis of the liver, can’t drink my favourite beer anymore, haven’t been in the gym for 6 months now and look like nothing much, scared the shit out of those i love and for what?
…there is no long term benefit of AAS use, unless you continue to use. We can’t all be Serge Nubret when we’re 60…
Before anyone calls this guy out, let me just say that I know him from another board, and he’s cool. He was using injectables only with IGF1 (as I recal), though there may have been some OT use, I can’t remember.
The reason I know him is because we were both using the exact same gear and IGF1. Unfortunately, the OP either suffered some reaction to something he was taking, or he contracted some form of pathogen from the environment. Thats my view anyway, since we were both on the exact same stuff from the same supplier. I have tried to figure it out, but I only have guesswork to go on…[/quote]
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…to the OP: you can never be sure how your body will respond until you start using. A few mild cycles topped off with 20 days of Lr3-IGF1 had me hospitalized for 2 weeks, off work for 4 months and i’m still on Prednison as we speak.
My bilirubin livervalues skyrocketed well into the 700’s and 15 to 20 is normal. I have cirrosis of the liver, can’t drink my favourite beer anymore, haven’t been in the gym for 6 months now and look like nothing much, scared the shit out of those i love and for what?
…there is no long term benefit of AAS use, unless you continue to use. We can’t all be Serge Nubret when we’re 60…
Before anyone calls this guy out, let me just say that I know him from another board, and he’s cool. He was using injectables only with IGF1 (as I recal), though there may have been some OT use, I can’t remember.
The reason I know him is because we were both using the exact same gear and IGF1. Unfortunately, the OP either suffered some reaction to something he was taking, or he contracted some form of pathogen from the environment. Thats my view anyway, since we were both on the exact same stuff from the same supplier. I have tried to figure it out, but I only have guesswork to go on…[/quote]
BBB,
I have no interest in calling him out, but I would like to know more about his experience. For instance if he does in fact have hepatitis that is considered EXTREMELY noteworthy when discussing liver failure.
So what’s the deal man? I think we would all like to know more about your story.
…i was diagnosed with non-viral hepatitis as a result of a toxic respons [most likely] due to AAS use. I went for a second opinion to a university medical centre, and they suspected it was unlikely to be a auto-immune illness…
…my first cycle was test and OT [40mgs/d] for 4 weeks. 3 months later test/deca blend and OT again [20mg/d i believe] for 4 weeks , but decided to give IGF1 a try directly following the end of that cycle…
…a few weeks after the IGF1 cycle i started to develop symptoms. Those symptoms ended in the first bout of hepatitis. I recovered from that, but instead of making a lifestyle change i went back to OTC supplements, eating big and working out intensely. The 30 or so lbs i lost initially were quickly gained back, but alas…
…2 months after recovering from the first time, symptoms started to come back and this time in a serious way. It’s not possible to ascertain what was the definit cause of the hepapitis because the drugs cleared my system long before i got sick…
…so that’s the story; one i never expected to happen to me, but it did. Positive things came from it though; bought a house, have a more relaxed outlook on life, am bothered less by lifes trivial distractions, and it was a general wake up call…
…one a whole though, the use of AAS for recreative purposes is a form of russian roulette. It’s temporary and i failed to realise that. Perhaps someone else will…
I read a post in the Over 35 section of SSB of a man who is 72 and does 10 mgs of dbol ED w/ numerous injectables. I think he’s been cycling for 25 plus years.
Epherm how old are you? Good luck to you in the future…
…36 and if you feel confident enough to start, or continue, to use gear based on the experiences of that 72 year old guy, go for it. Nobody knows when their time is up and how the end will come, but it doesn’t hurt to be conscious of the downside of AAS use…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…36 and if you feel confident enough to start, or continue, to use gear based on the experiences of that 72 year old guy, go for it. Nobody knows when their time is up and how the end will come, but it doesn’t hurt to be conscious of the downside of AAS use…[/quote]
It’s highly unlikely that they were the reason for your health problems.
If they are, you are one in a million.
It is more likely that you had some underlying pathology to begin with, either genitic or other.
Studies have shown Oral Turinabol to be quite safe, even at the doses you were using.
And we all know that testosterone and nandrolone are two of the safest drugs out there.
I am not in denial regarding AAS safety, however usually when problems occur, it is due to the fact rediculous amounts were being used for a long period of time.
It may also be possible that your gear or igf-1 was not clean, and that there was additonal toxins in it that you did not know about.
But curious that Bushidobadboy used the same stuff as you and did not get ill.
Anyways that’s a raw deal my friend, and I hope you get well and stay well.