The HGH Experiment

Pharma
101

Yea I’ve been wondering about long-acting GH myself for a while. Part of what instilled that are the talks I’ve seen on the net where people want just the short burst in activity (as discussed here). It seems contradictory to me how what the bodybuilders are going for would be much different than what a patient with GH deficiency or muscle wasting would want though. I mean you are all looking for increased muscle growth right? So why wouldn’t we want one universal, most-effective muscle-stimulating GH use protocol?

But sometimes things have a way of working differently when you don’t expect it, and this could be the case with long-acting GH.

And from my perspective, there are a few potential motives for having a long-acting GH. One is precisely what you suggested, where it would allow for less pure GH to be available to people who don’t need it for therapy. Another is related to what I said where you get an unexpected beneficial effect from having the long-acting GH. In this respect it is a bit of a crap shoot. Finally PEGylation (the method people are looking to for making it longer-acting) can provide other benefits to protein-based therapy, such as better stability and solubility in solution and greater bioavailability and circulation. It can also reduce dosing requirements and the number of injections patients need to take by virtue of longer half-life.

102

why are you still trying to sell us on this concept?

I still see no reason why any of us would want this and you have yet to give one other than saying “it might provide some different results”… frankly common sense tells us that it would be counter productive given the experience most have had here with GH. You don’t want GH to be long acting, I don’t care if they PEGylate it to make it more bioavailable, I still don’t want it.

If you had a fast acting GH that was changed to make it more bioavailable/stable/soluble then i might be interested but if it means being more long acting the likely result would be as BBB said more side effects like AM and more negative feedback from Somatostatin which is exactly what we are trying to avoid with the E3D multiple IM/IV injection protocol.

FG

103

The biggest change this would likely cause is that any large dose (BB type levels) would cause almost certain negative sides so that the most that could be tolerated by the body would be very small doses.

104

Whatever man it’s just something to talk about!

105

How many 21 day cycles of this are needed?

Does each one need to be concurrent with an AAS cycle? For example, those of us that run 2-3 6 week cycles a year.

106

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
How many 21 day cycles of this are needed?

Does each one need to be concurrent with an AAS cycle? For example, those of us that run 2-3 6 week cycles a year. [/quote]

Much better to run it with a cycle of androgens.

107

This was written over two weeks ago as a personal exchange between me and a friend. I have updated a couple of places for clarity and made notes in others:

Here’s a very brief run-down of my experience. Unfortunately, I have not been able to keep accurate logs, records, or even before-pictures, because the entire start of this thing coincided with the birth of my son, along with a lot of troubling business issues I’ve been dealing with. All excuses aside, here’s what I’ve been up to:

Cycle began April 1st, with the GH addition beginning just around a week after that.

Week 1- Present: Test prop 170mg ED (around 1200mg/w)*

Week 1- 9: Tren ace 100mg ED (700mg/w)*

Week 1-4: 60mg dbol ED

Week 10 - Present: Masteron prop 90mg ED

Week 2- Present: Letrozole .625mg/ EOD

Week 2- 9: Cabaser .5mg 2XWeek

  • I did not actually start out at dosages quite this high, but achieved them over 1.5-2.5 weeks, gradually increasing the daily amount to give my body a little bit of time to acclimate to the pretty high (for me) dosages I am now using.

The GH protocol is being followed almost exactly as BBB outlined in the T-Nation thread, but I will admit that I have been using a few more IU than is called for on certain days, just because I can. I will probably stop this, though, and go back to just using exactly the amounts as outlined, for reasons I’ll get to in a moment.

Here is what I have noticed:

Unbelievable fat loss. Like, wow, holy shit. WTF?! That kind of fat loss. I’ve been “bulking” for the first month and have now started to cut for my show in late July, but I am WAY leaner than when I started, and my body weight has gone from 208 at the start (yeah, I let myself shrink down pretty good, I’m not happy to admit), to my current weight of 221. When I started, I was somewhat soft, and my abs were not really visible, probably 16%BF (this is only a guess, sorry). Presently, I have clearly visible abs at all times, vastly increased vascularity, and, well, it’s just very clear that I have dropped quite a bit of fat. If I had to guess, I’d put myself at under 12% now. If this is correct, I would have lost somewhat close to 10lbs of fat while gaining 13lbs of muscle. In 6 weeks! And let me also mention that, aside from getting the protein and calories I need, I have been eating whatever crap I feel like eating. Lots of ice cream and snickers bars, which I NEVER eat. (*NOTE: I am actually STILL 220 while “cutting” and probably under 10%BF at this point! I keep waiting for my weight to start dropping and the only thing dropping is fat!)

Pumps in the gym are just incredible. I feel like superman. Yes, a lot of this will be due to the AAS, but, much like the fat-loss above, there is something just a bit more going on, as I have used AAS for long enough at this point to be able to make a distinction. I do an IM shot of GH before training (all other shots are done IV) and sometimes I just have stop everything because the pumps are SO full and intense. It’s actually a problem at times, as I cannot spend as much time as I would like on deadlifts and such because the back pumps become so bad that they just cripple me.

I also feel an almost immediate effect from training. As in, I will look different, better, the very next day after a good day of hard training and eating.

Finally, I just feel better. Hard to explain this in any concrete manner, but yes, I feel “younger.” My skin looks even better than usual, too.

Now I know much of this is pretty close to impossible to separate from the AAS, and I apologize for that. I am not the best guinea pig. However, I will say that there is CLEARLY something more and better happening here, and the thing that amazed me the most about the entire process was the fact that it began to happen pretty damned near IMMEDIATELY after starting the protocol.

Now, the bad part. I have begun to notice over the last couple of days that my wedding ring and watch are both fitting me quite a bit tighter than before. At first I was putting it down to simple bloat, but it appears to be the same even when I’m not really bloated. I have to wet my finger to get my ring off, and it is specifically at the knuckle that it gets stuck. Also my watchband is pretty damned tight. I mean, I can tell if my wrists are bloated. I don’t think that’s the problem. Which leads me to believe I’m already developing thickening of the joints and wrist bones. Yeesh. Seems a bit quick for that, and it certainly has me rather worried. You think I’m just being paranoid here, and that it is way too early for that to be possible? I rather think this, but the hard evidence seems to posit otherwise.

Luckily, I am not noticing any real bloat, joint pain, or carpal tunnel, thankfully.

What else. Jeez, I had better stop writing War and Peace here, as I don’t even know that you have made it this far.

108

thanks for the update! your experience sounds absolutely mindblowing!

109

Cortes, do you mind if I ask what age bracket you are in?

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences with us.

110

So how many iu’s total have you used thus far?

111

Thanks a million for this write-up Cortes!! That really is astonishing! Amazing if your bone structure is already getting bigger so soon as BBB said this protocol would eventually accomplish. Why does this scare you if it was to be expected, albeit after a longer period of time?

I envy your access to high quality powders and HGH for dirt cheap prices.

112

Wow, Cortes, Your friend has really done well with this endeavor.

113

[quote]xXDevilDogXx wrote:
Wow, Cortes, Your friend has really done well with this endeavor.[/quote]

How about you DD? Have you started? If so how are results to date?

Also all others on the protocol - follow Cortes’ lead and give us a rundown of your experiences. This is cutting edge tweaking of combined HGH and AAS protocols. If Cortes’ experience is the norm, this is ground breaking.

114

I’ll be doing a short run soon of ~ 4 weeks. This is more to test the waters and logistics of the frequent injections before I commit to a much longer run.

Should be interesting to see what kind of results 4 weeks can give.

I’ll be aiming for 1.5g+ test PW during this period.

115

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
I’ll be doing a short run soon of ~ 4 weeks. This is more to test the waters and logistics of the frequent injections before I commit to a much longer run.

Should be interesting to see what kind of results 4 weeks can give.

I’ll be aiming for 1.5g+ test PW during this period.
[/quote]

Good luck & post an update when you have news.

116

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Thanks a million for this write-up Cortes!! That really is astonishing! Amazing if your bone structure is already getting bigger so soon as BBB said this protocol would eventually accomplish. Why does this scare you if it was to be expected, albeit after a longer period of time?[/quote]

Thanks DH! I don’t know if it is genuine bone growth of just bloat, but I can’t remember this ever having happened on previous cycles except when I was clearly bloated up, and then it was just the ring. Scary because, well, I don’t want too much bone growth too early! Take a look at pictures of Jay Cutler when he was 18 and pictures of his ugly mug today. Yeah, I know I’m in no danger of that happening for a good long while, but it is kind of freaky when all of a sudden your hand and wrist bones appear to be growing, and this after only 6 weeks!

[quote]

I envy your access to high quality powders and HGH for dirt cheap prices.[/quote]

:smiley: I’m pretty happy about that, myself. I am blessed.

117

[quote]BenceJones wrote:
So how many iu’s total have you used thus far?[/quote]

Around 220. I have another 300, but if things keep going as well as they are, I will probably get ahold of about 300 more and extend the GH use as long as possible. I’m thinking I’ll probably be on 5 months total of AAS (I know, anathema around these here parts, the horror, etc, etc.) and follow it with 3 months of stasis/taper, running the GH the entire time.

118

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
Cortes, do you mind if I ask what age bracket you are in?

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences with us. [/quote]

Hey DOH. I will answer this and the questions you posed via PM here.

First, I’m in my early 30’s.

I just poked (haha) around the internet for IV procedures. There are a couple of good videos on youtube. I could NOT get it right the first couple of weeks, and sometimes had to stick myself 10 to 12 times before I could get blood to draw. I’m not joking. However, I have now mastered my technique, and draw blood on the first poke 95% of the time.

Yes, I use slin pins. 29g 0.5" 1ml Terumo “No dead-space” pins, to be exact.

119

Cortes,

I understand your concerns about the bone growth now. Its all a matter of where the bone growth occurs. What does BBB say about where to expect increased bone growth and the risk of it marring your matinee idol jaw line? :wink:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Dynamo Hum wrote:
Thanks a million for this write-up Cortes!! That really is astonishing! Amazing if your bone structure is already getting bigger so soon as BBB said this protocol would eventually accomplish. Why does this scare you if it was to be expected, albeit after a longer period of time?

Thanks DH! I don’t know if it is genuine bone growth of just bloat, but I can’t remember this ever having happened on previous cycles except when I was clearly bloated up, and then it was just the ring. Scary because, well, I don’t want too much bone growth too early! Take a look at pictures of Jay Cutler when he was 18 and pictures of his ugly mug today. Yeah, I know I’m in no danger of that happening for a good long while, but it is kind of freaky when all of a sudden your hand and wrist bones appear to be growing, and this after only 6 weeks!

I envy your access to high quality powders and HGH for dirt cheap prices.

:smiley: I’m pretty happy about that, myself. I am blessed.

[/quote]

120

[quote]Cortes wrote:
BenceJones wrote:
So how many iu’s total have you used thus far?

Around 220. I have another 300, but if things keep going as well as they are, I will probably get ahold of about 300 more and extend the GH use as long as possible. I’m thinking I’ll probably be on 5 months total of AAS (I know, anathema around these here parts, the horror, etc, etc.) and follow it with 3 months of stasis/taper, running the GH the entire time. [/quote]

Its funny - staying on IS considered a big taboo here, and when i first became a regular here i was advised by an existing vet to keep that kind of info to myself, as there are too many who take information the wrong way.
HOWEVER, i am willing to bet that the majority of posters here that people consider ‘vets’ are ‘on’ the majority of the time - if not permanently! :wink:

As for this thread, i am glad you bumped it - i had of course been following the talk of BBB’s protocol, but with no considerable interest as i thought that to run GH i would need 1000iu for 6 months or so… and even at the prices i can also get it, it would be too much money.
However, i am happy to punt the cash for 300iu for 11 weeks of IV use (IV being a route of drug ingestion i am highly experienced with already).

But i didnt know the in’s and outs - and while i need to read the full threads still - i get the main gist of varying doses averaging 26iu per week over a 21 day rotation, repeated as desired.

Thanks again :slight_smile: