The USDAs definition of a food desert is kind arbitrary, no? If they extend the distance from 1 mile to 1.5 or 2 miles (very walkable) how many food deserts would dry up? I don’t live within 1 mile of a grocery store, but I live within 1.5 or 2 miles of one.
My adopted city, Pittsburgh, provides a useful case study.
(hopefully this link stays active)
I’m moving out to the 'burbs in a few weeks, but for the last 13 years I’ve lived somewhere in between the words “North Oakland” and “Shadyside” on that map. I have always had at least two grocery stores within a mile, which I consider walking distance (see below for further discussion). What’s particularly interesting is the amount of variability - some of the “poorer” neighborhoods in this area do have grocery stores within easy walking distance, but some have no place within a few miles…speaking of which…
Agreed - another tricky thing about this issue is variability in what “walking distance” to a grocery store means for a majority of people. I’m 30 years old with two good legs and no chronic injuries; carrying groceries a mile back to my apartment passes for a nice low-grade warmup before lifting on a Saturday. Every time I walk to the store, though, I see a not-insignificant number of less physically able people hobbling out with walkers and/or canes (or morbid obesity). Walking a mile back to their apartment carrying groceries is much harder on them than it is on me. I’d love to say that they just need to take personal responsibility for their fitness and that it’s not my fault they’re fat and/or crippled, but that’s not really helping the situation.
EDIT: usmc just posted about this as I was finishing.
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There’s no government solution to the problem of choice. You could surround a McDonalds with acres of free vegetables and it would still stay in business. People would probably be upset that you’re making them walk further to get the $1 double-cheeseburger, then rationalize the purchase of a second because of the increased calorie expenditure from walking past all of that fucking rabbit food.
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Ya, like I said, it just seems a bit overblown to me. I’m not saying food deserts don’t exist, but I also think they’re few and far between.
Nah, bro, it’s the nefarious way the cheeseburger is flipped.
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Toxins in the spatula, no doubt. Best cleansed with a $50 bag of this shit.
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Not necessarily directed at you, but more about the map-
I was doing refrigeration systems for a while and built a couple of save-a-lots- one in Wilkinsburg, one in Lawrenceville. The one in Wilkinsburg was all shot up before we even got done with 3 separate incidents in which someone was found dead in the parking lot, and at the Lawrenceville location one guy was jumped and robbed while he was finishing up for the day. At a renovation I was doing in Hazelwood, we had to wait before getting out of the van- and watch how many heads pop out from behind cars and corners of buildings. People scoping us out, presumably to jump/rob us.
Those places just plain suck. There is no way to do business without getting robbed and possibly killed around there. There are a couple bodega style stores on wheels that work through those areas, but they’re more like Brinks trucks and their prices are crazy.
In Allegheny county older and disabled also have this- http://www.portauthority.org/paac/riderservices/accessparatransit.aspx
but it is kind of a shame that there are just certain areas that it really isn’t worth it to do business in.
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That was an awesome article, thank you. While some of those red areas on the map are indeed violent as @SkyzykS pointed out, there’s another reason I’d like to posit for the lack of grocery stores.
The business taxes/regs in Allegheny county generally and the City of Pittsburgh specifically are very burdensome. To the point where some businesses won’t even locate their headquarters in the city any longer but just outside the city (Cranberry to the north, southpoint, RIDC east and west).
Also the county doesn’t have enough people to justify all the grocery stores it has now. Would you invest in grocery stores given the population falling since 1955?
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Is everything engineered to be addictive?
So you excuse the manufactures of this garbage and their advertising to do the best they can to get people to buy their engineered food? It’s all the public’s fault?
That may be a piece of the puzzle too. I remember when (I forget which tax it was) started pushing people and businesses out over the borders. Virtually all areas just outside of the county line have become the newest and most affluent parts of the region.
Then there’s going where the money is. There is a little stretch of rt.19 where Bethel Park, Upper Saint Claire, and Mt. Lebanon meet with a Trader Joes, a Giant Eagle Market District, another mid-high end market, and 2 specialty shops all within a mile of each other. The produce section of the market district looks like it was picked straight out of the Garden of Eden, no joke.
Then a couple miles over- another Giant Eagle, Shop & Save and Aldi literally within sight of each other.
All in places where you can’t fall down without landing on a house ranging upwards in the six digits.
So, on investing in a supermarket, I’d have to ask “Where at?”.
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Our brains are.
For example, in one of my own little idiosyncratic habits- foraging for wild edible shrooms, when I find a viable patch I guarantee I’ll remember exactly where it is for the rest of my life. We’re kind of wired that way. When you obtain food, sex, or safety the source of it becomes indelibly emblazoned in your brain. Same with fishing. Its that deep brain reward/pleasure system that kept us alive as a species for aeons. Back before shelves full of Ho-Ho’s and Crispy Creme.
You should read up a little on neurology instead of conspiracy bullshit.
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Well for the discussion, food desserts. Bottom Dollar was trying to put stores Just outside of tough neighborhoods (the hopewell side of Alliquippa). But Aldi bought them out and put a stop to that.
The FACT that corporations spend millions of dollars on advertising and engineered food is not conspiracy. It is real. Do you think they woud spend this money on things that were not effective?You should spend more time dealing in the reality created by Big Food to maximize profits at all costs, instead of trying to fnd any excuse to deny it.
Not to mention the ones with young children. Or the ones with babies. Or the ones who are pregnant. And the ones with a demented parent they can’t leave home alone for an hour-plus. Or the ones who would have to walk through crime-infested areas.
Those articles are using the word addictive in a metaphorical sense. For example, a quote from the NYT article:
“While at Frito-Lay, Lin and other company scientists spoke openly about the country’s excessive consumption of sodium and the fact that, as Lin said to me on more than one occasion, “people get addicted to salt.”
Trust me when I say, no one is addicted to salt. Now, if their usual salt intake is cut from the very high levels that typify junk food down to FDA-recommended levels, an individual is likely to complain that their food tastes bland and needs salt. But that individual will display no physiological evidence of withdrawal.
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Glad you two guys chimed in - with a couple knowledgeable 'Burghers around here, I figured we could have an interesting chat with our fine city as a case study.
Dude, you’re tellin me. I drive through Wilkinsburg on my way out of town if I’m heading home (fastest way to reach 376 East from my place) and driving through there provides a harsh reminder that the Pittsburgh revival hasn’t exactly spread to all of the city just yet. I have no good solution to the “food desert” problem in that part of town, because that’s not a place where I would invest my cash if I were a prospective business owner.
A nice point that falls under the broad, broad spectrum of “What, if anything, can/should the government do to address this issue?”
This, I’m not totally sure that I buy. For one, that graph is a little old (the population has basically leveled off the last few years; I assume that the grocers have already adapted to the population decline that took places from the 1950’s to the 1990’s, lol). For two, the discussion here is not only “are there enough grocery stores to serve the population” but “are the existing grocery stores distributed in such a way that provides efficient access to most of the city population” or “are there segments of the population with no easy way to reach a grocery store.”
Grocery stores (or rather, their investors and operators) are under no obligation to consider that, of course; they are businesses, and should build stores where they will turn a profit. Which brings us back to some of the earlier points: when the “food deserts” exist primarily in places with high rates of violent crime and/or other features that make them an undesirable location to invest in, what we we do?
Yeah, driving south on Route 19 from the city, in that Mt Lebo / Upper St Clair / Bethel Park area, you run into a Fresh Market, Trader Joes, Market District, and Whole Foods within a 1-mile span.
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If you were even a teensy weensy itty bitty cookie crumb smarter, you’d have realized that I gave you the exact reason backed by mountains of scientific evidence- as to why they do that.
But you aren’t, so that tidbit just blazed right past your pot smoke resin encrusted dendrites.
Sucks for you.
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If @Zeppelin795 thinks fast food is addictive, you should try my pan-seared sea scallops and grilled ribeye, flame-seared to perfection and topped with carmelized onions. Sides of sauteed mushroom and zucchini, steamed asparagus, fire-roasted corn and maple-butter glazed baked sweet potatoes.
One meal from me and you’ll be blowing truckers to get your next fix.
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