You got numb hands and feet? How can that happen from clomid (serious)? I felt fine once on it for two weeks.
How did I feel before TRT?
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
You got numb hands and feet? How can that happen from clomid (serious)? I felt fine once on it for two weeks.
How did I feel before TRT?
[/quote]
Yessir numb hands an feet with tingling all over my arms and legs. It scared the living shit out of me. Paresthesia is a rare but documented side effect of clomid. 3 weeks later, it appears that the numbness is gone/mostly gone (THANK GOD!). I have had the worst luck with hypogonadism. I thought clomid was going to be the ticket but apparently not.
My symptoms:
(1.) Severe bone and joint problems (cracking, snapping, etc.)
(2.) Depression and anxiety
(3.) Intolerance to exercise (sound familiar?): Last time I exercised, 20 minutes of elliptical made it difficult to walk for over 2 weeks
(4.) Severe erectile problems and NO libido whatsoever
(5.) Loss of body hair
(6.) Difficulty getting full breaths of air
Some of these symptoms have gotten better, but I still need some kind of intervention. I’ll give the HCG 3 weeks and retest and see where T, Bio T, and E2 stand. Assuming my testicles work (pretty sure they do), the problem with HCG can be excessive E2 production.
Any ferritin lab data or RBC data?
Some of this is strongly suggestive of adrenal fatigue. You would need a 4 sample saliva cortisol test to resolve that issue. Do some reading and see what you think. Then you might want to review other symptoms of adrenal fatigue as well.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=adrenal+fatigue+joint+pain
If you had moderate car accident or other stressful event that did not involve physical exertion, would you feel wiped out from that? If this seems to fit, find “Wilson’s” book on Adrenal Fatigue at Amazon.com Accidents, surgeries, chronic infections [Lyme disease], parasites and long term stress can be causative.
For those with this condition, they need to become educated and self-aware. This is not something that many docs know how to manage and you can’t take a pill to fix it. One thing that can be direct and supportive is taking DHEA and/or pregnenolone. It would be good if you had some DHEA-S lab results. Do not test DHEA, test DHEA-S. Some will skip the test and jump to DHEA 50mg/day [males]. Some need more as DHEA is poorly absorbed and many have this absorption problem to a greater degree and need to take more. [I need to take 1/8th teaspoon of bulk DHEA to get to high normal youthful levels.]
When LH is low, pregnenolone is low. The single largest source of pregnenolone in normal males is the testes.
If pregnenolone is low, DHEA and other adrenal hormones can be low. If DHEA is low, the testes have less to use to make T, which can deepen the T deficit if low LH. This is where hCG is valuable, supporting pregnenolone levels which is the basis for adrenal hormone production and pregnenolone is also an important neural steroid in it self and supports production in the brain of other neural steroids.
Ferritin was 38 [20-345]: in range but less than optimal. This might be from never eating red meat. I am eating red meat on the regular now.
Red blood cell count 5.11 [4.20 - 5.80]
I did the 4x saliva test.
24 hour cortisol from Genova Diagnostics
1 hour after rising (9"40 am): 0.23 [0.27 - 1.18 mcg/dL]
11AM -1PM: 0.07 [0.10 - 0.41]
3PM -5PM: 0.11 [0.05 -0.27]
10 PM -12AM: 0.04 [0.03 -0.14]
It was just barely low for the first 2 samples and then normal for the last 2. This was when I had some hypoglycemic stuff going on, which has since passed. Also, the validity of saliva assays, especially from the lab that I used, is questionable. Blood cortisol at 8am was at the top of the range and ACTH looked fine.
Cortisol A.M: 21.7 [4.0-22.0]
ACTH (quest): 22
My TSH from when I was healthy was 0.6, but has now jumped to nearly 2.
I think most of these abnormalities come from the constant stress that I have experienced from hypogonadism. Testosterone helps men deal with stress. When you don’t have much testosterone, you’d be surprised what can knock you down.
[quote]chemman wrote:
I have had the worst luck with hypogonadism. I thought clomid was going to be the ticket but apparently not.
[/quote]
Ever think of giving my high tech protocol–5 to 10 grams of Androgel–a shot and calling it a day perhaps?
[quote]chemman wrote:
(3.) Intolerance to exercise (sound familiar?) [/quote]
Yes, very! I was destroyed after workouts. I couldn’t even get a pump.
My destroyed goes far beyond not getting a pump. Severe bone and joint cracking. It’s very concerning. There’s no way I could even consider exercising right now. I waxed a car yesterday and my entire shoulder and upper back is on FIRE. Can barely lift my arm. Something ain’t right
Yes I have considered androgel. I tried testim for a few days this summer but it just made me even more anxious. It was really weird. But that’s testim, not androgel.
Chemman, are you taking a statin drug?
No drugs at all at the moment. The last thing I took was 10 mg cialis a month ago.
About to go fill my script for HCG in a few minutes!
My labs from last week were:
Total T: 320 [240-1000]
Free T: 3.0 [2.5-10.5]
TSH: 0.6 [0.35-3.74]
Ferritin: 59 [20-300]
Slight improvements but nothing major. I actually feel better this week so far. Less joint cracking etc., but I have NO libido and still cannot get powerful erections.
Why shut the kid nuts down if they are working fine this is ass backwards thinking. Honestly his thyroid does look good but as his testosterone goes up his rt3 will drop. His vitamin D levels where in the shitter which he is currently working on. HCG would be the most logical step which he has one of the top dr’s in the business Dr Overbeck working on along with myself. Personally if he would go into complete detail then you would se where the problem orginally lies as KSman said the liver. Once a person has been exposed to numerous chemicals for a prolong peroid of time this can damage the HPTA resulting in lack of signal from pituitary or it is disrputed. You have been low T for a long time and it will take a long time for receptors to heal. You are feeling better so do not try to be so freaken analytical about stuff and let the treatingf physican do his job which he noted more.
I know you are seeking answer and that is fine but you got post all over the place which you are getting conflicting information from some people that do not know shit about hormones and what is relative to your specific case. Its almost like getting information from the peanut gallary. To be honest you sex drive may not return for a while as there has been considerable damage from all the crap you where exposed to over the years and then trying to self medicate with ribulus which shut you down even more.
So just stay the course and hang in there…You have made progression already and sorry to say this shit will not be fixed over night and may take several weeks to feel full effect. Trying to micromangage stuff is only asking for increase risk of failure. I made more progression being off the boards and leting the dr do his job then getting mis information from some people not all. KSMAN I highly respect and is dead on with what he has been saying.
Hello HAN!
I just did my first HCG injection so I’ll let you all know how things go.
Chem
After injecting second hcg dose, it became obvious that it was not going to work. I became extremely emotional within a few hours. I was fighting back the tears honestly. The next morning I woke up and could barely get out of bed. Brutal depression. To me it sounds like the hcg overloaded my system with estrogen or the hcg itself causes me issues. I used novarel brand. Any ideas? Im going to try and get a script for test injections tomorrow, but not being able to tolerate hcg is upsetting.
Many report an improvement in energy and a few an improvement in energy. A dopamine lift I suspect.
You mixed how and injected how much?
[quote]KSman wrote:
Many report an improvement in energy and a few an improvement in energy. A dopamine lift I suspect.
You mixed how and injected how much?[/quote]
Not sure exactly what you’re saying here…?
I mixed bacteriostatic water with the dried HCG. It was novarel 10,000iu. I injected 250 iu at each injection, EOD. So I only did 2 injections. Problems occurred after the second injection. My theory is estradiol party happened and caused bad sides.
NEW LABS:
Drawn at LabCorp 12 hours after my 30mg T cyp shot.
CBC: Normal
CMP: Normal
Total Testosterone: 963 [280-800] HIGH
SHBG: 20.2 [14.5 - 48.4]
DHT: Pending
Estradiol, sensitive: 18 [3-70]
Albumin: 4.5 [3.5-5.5]
DHEA: 291.3 [211 - 492]
Pregnenolone: Pending
TSH: 1.470 [0.450 - 4.500]
Free T4: 1.31 [0.82 - 1.77]
Free T3: 3.1 [2.0 - 4.4]
Reverse T3: 310 [90 - 350]
Vitamin B12: 610 [211-946]
Vitamin D: 38.3 [32.0 - 100.00]
IFG-1: 340 [116 - 358]
Cortisol, Urinary free
Cortisol,F, ug/L, U: 22 [reference range undefined]
Cortisol,F,uG/24hr, U: 33 [0-50]
My comments:
Man, what an improvement over 6 months ago as far as numbers go!
I feel slightly better every week, but I still do not feel “normal.” Maybe it will just take time to heal the physical and psychological damage that I experienced? Also, with my TT that high, my E2 is relatively low. I still have some joint cracking going on, so I wonder if I have enough E2?
The main things I need to work on now are:
Mild anxiety and mild-moderate depression
Libido [I can feel it coming back sometimes, but not what it used to be]
Continuing low penile sensitivity [and sometimes resulting ED]
Possible low cortisol at times
Reverse T3
Maybe raising E2
Any thoughts?
Please describe your complete protocol.
No anastrozole?
rT3 is a problem, we need hardasnails to chime in again.
Some supplemental transdermal T would increase E, as hCG might as well. And you could also apply some to your penis.
Any other skin nerves seem numb?
What is your waking body temp? fT3/4 look perfect, but with your rT3 level, you could have some symptoms of hypothyroidism.
My protocol is 30mg T cyp EOD. NO anastrozole. I am still convinced that I do not make enough E2 since the adex experiment a year ago. The recent labs are from 12 hours after a 30mg shot.
I completely agree with you. That is why I QUIT weight training and anything beyond walking about 1 year ago to the day. YEP, a 1 year break! Now I focues on rest, balanced diet, and stress reduction. In bed by 10:30, wake up around 8:00AM.
I waited months and months only to see my T and free T remain at the bottom of the reference ranges as my physical and mental health spiraled downward. Then I started getting symptoms of low cortisol and shit really hit the fan. So TRT is an effort to get my life back rather than allow myself to overextend myself in the gym.