Or you could get real bananas and use test suspension…
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No worries buddy. Thx for the input.
Test and a bit of nandrolone to keep your joints from getting worn. Equipoise is another choice too. IMO, Test must be a part of it. I don’t like winstrol as it actually bothers my joints. You could up the test to 250-500mg a week and add deca (2-300mgs week) or equipoise (4-600mgs). I have to admit, I once did a very light cycle of 10mg halotestin a day and 200mg of equipoise a week and felt amazing. Throw in curcumin (ibuporofen, naproxen, or aspirin taken too often is bad news) and a good balanced fatty acid supplement and you’ll feel great. No doubt. Test for sure, then the choice is yours. Enjoy, let me know how it feels through the season.
Awesome info from all. I will post my blood workup once i get it and thank
you all for your information and suggestions.
jheez some people just dont want to hear a particular answer do they lol
No… you could have 3000 total test, but 100 e2 is too high, you get the sides from it… no way… you need to keep it around the range (40 to 50 max)… you cannot think with proportionality when talking about E2… high E2 = sides no matter if you are 5000 total test…
I’m definitely with Thiago on this one. Recently I was running a gram of test (along with other things), while running adex. Was getting noticeable gyno, so I got my E2 checked, and it was only 42. Obviously my total test was higher than just double normal. Probably at least 5x, if not more. So by this ratio theory, I shouldn’t have had any problems at all, since 42 is double normal E2 range.
So yea, I’m calling bullshit.
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That’s fine you can call bullshit all you want. If you running progesterone based compounds then it would make sense. An e2 of 40 is not enough to give you gyno bro. I work with a pro bodybuilder who writes my cycles and I only run tamoxifen on cycle. PS I’m also a doctor. To me an AI is almost always not necessary until right before pre contest to dry out. Again. My opinion and that of who I work with and other doctors I consult with. Estrogen doesn’t have a higher binding affinity to androgen receptors than testosterone. High estrogen with low test causes expression because the binding is higher with estrogen to testosterone. With high test the binding is predominantly testosterone. If you have high free e2 it can’t cause any effects systemically because it is not bound to a receptor where it can express the effects. This is basic biochemistry. If you have excess e2 it’s either free, bound, or bound to shbg. If the AR is occupied by testosterone, estrogen cannot bind to the same receptor. It is either eliminated free via Phase 1 or 2 detox in the liver or if your liver sucks is reabsorbed and put back free in the system to try again
unless you’re an endocrinologist, or at least an MD (are you either?) then it’s not particularly relevant that you are a Dr. Anyone with a phd is a Dr. That doesn’t mean you’re right here.
I also think it’s hilarious that because you work with a pro bodybuilder, that should lend credibility to your statement. I’ve heard some insane things come out of pro bodybuilders mouths.
I’m running test and dbol.
You’re saying 1 of the following: Either a) I am lying. b) I’m not lying, but I don’t know what gyno is, and don’t actually have it. c) the reporting on my blood test was inaccurate, and my actual E2 is much higher. One of those statements would have to be true for me to be reporting that I have gyno from what I’m running, if your statement that ‘E2 at 40 can’t give you gyno’ is a correct assertion.
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EDD’s (Doctor of Education) are also doctors, and I second your bullshit. My father’s endocrinologist has him shooting 300 mg of Test Cyp every fifteen days for TRT, using 23 gauge needles, and he explained why he needs to shoot with 23’s instead of 25’s. I don’t know what his reasoning was, but obviously a lot of dudes are having great success using slin pins subq.
There’s also a thread in TRT about stupid shit doctors say and do, and it’s fucking chilling.
So, MD don’t mean shit either. Anecdotal makes sense to me, but you have to remember everybody is different and you have to figure out your protocol. I know @flipcollar collar is a proponent of prophylactic employment of AI’s, and I have read his reasons why, and they make sense to me.
Anecdotally, I’m on 150mg per week of Test C, and my genius doctor doesn’t believe in AI’s or even testing estrogen. He’s an Endocrinologist. I’m not stupid enough to roll with that, so I get it tested at a private lab twice a year, and for me, it works without an AI.
But, that’s just me.
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Not saying any of those actually. Did you have your progesterone levels as well as prolactin checked? Did you have your e1 and e3 checked as well as they act as reservoirs for e2 and can cross transfer. I am an MD. Look into dr Serrano’s work. He’s got more experience with this than just about anyone in the field. I have the pleasure of working with him and learning from him. Do some people need to use an AI? Yes. Do people running 125 mg of c a week like the poster said he was running need arimidex ? No. Dude I’ve ran test into the grams and not needed an AI. Am not saying you’re wrong at all. What works for you works for you and that’s great. I’m explaining the way the hormones bind and work. Total numbers don’t mean shit. It’s what’s bound that exerts affects on the body. Unbound hormones can’t express an affect WHATSOEVER
I did not get e1 or e3 checked, and haven’t ever. i can look into that. progesterone and prolactin are in range, test and dbol has never elevated those for me. I’ve run deca recently, but wasn’t running it at the time I was having the symptom.
I also know guys that don’t run an AI and don’t need one. I just know I’m EXTREMELY sensitive to gyno, and have needed to run an AI while on ever since my very first run with 500mg test/week. I tried to start without an AI, and I had symptoms within the first 10 days of the cycle. I’m still not convinced that ratio is the ONLY thing that matters, although I understand what you’re saying about it.
I think we are both saying the same stuff 
how’s your liver health? A lot of times guys who get gyno have liver stress. Try calcium d glucarate and NAC. both help a ton with elimination of excess estrogens
Also have you considered just running 20 mg tamoxifen during your cycle
liver values (at least the standard ones I always check) have always looked great, I’ve never had a test where any were elevated. which surprises me, given some of the things i’ve run. I ran halo dbol test tren and epi for a brief period awhile back, and labs came back great.
That being said, I do drink, so perhaps that could be an issue. i’m sure i’d be better off not doing that.
i’ve never run just tamox. i’ve run it alongside my adex when i’ve noticed gyno in the past, but not alone. I suppose that’s worth trying, I’ve seen it suggested before.
Bear in mind running tamoxifen drastically lowers the effectiveness of arimidex as well.
Tren f***ed my cardio completely, was very tired on it due too keep waking up from strange dreams and night sweats. apart from that tren gave me good gains, maybe not what you are looking for?
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physioLojik,
Ok, so I took my blood test last week and just got my preliminary results, Estrodiol is not ready yet. But here they are: Serum T = 94, Free T = 3.1, PSA = 1.1, SBGH = 9.9.
So, this is based off of 125 ml/week T and 125 ml/week Tren.
I know plenty of people have said “stay away from tren”, “do your research before doing anything”, etc. etc.
So this is what I found:
Trenbolone acetate is a prized weapon for high performing athletes or body builders who are looking at cutting and building up, however it does come with some side effects It is during the cutting stage that this compound is especially beneficial as the end results of taking Trenbolone Acetate are unmatched by any other steroid on the market_
Now, before I tried Tren, my Test levels were at 943 - 1300, but now 94. I have been feeling off, fuzzy, cloudy etc. Is this because of the Tren taking up Testosterone receptors, vs. Testosterone binding to them, decreasing the Testosterone in my system?
So rather than up the Testosterone, I would probably want decrease Tren levels, correct? to regain the normal range of testosterone?
Wait a minute. Your serum test is 94? What company tested this ? What are your labs ranges? If that’s the case something is clearly off. Tren being bound to a receptor would show more serum test. Anything under 300 man and it’s all bad for serum.
what the fuck is going on here???
8 days ago you said you were THINKING about running tren. 6 days ago, based on your posts, I assume you still hadn’t.
Now you already have bloodwork that you’re saying has been affected by tren?
Dude, be honest with us. How long have you already been running the cycle you said you were just thinking about running at the start of this thread?
I have to say, it’s really fucking irritating when people come on here and lie when they are looking for advice. It’s a waste of everyone’s time.
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