[quote]orion wrote:
4est wrote:
Actually, I wish the whole nation just ran off a flat SALES tax and we didn’t have any Income Tax.
All consumers would pay the same %.
Now if you were to argue that food, clothes and shelter should be exempt I´d say the same should be true for medical supplies, like wheelchairs.
[/quote]
Clothes should be included too, unless you want to get into a shitstorm of a pointless debate about why my $900 Gucci underwear should or shouldn’t be taxed. Fuck it, tax that shit. Clothes are one of the most pointless things people buy nowadays when you think about all the name-brand bullshittery.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
orion wrote:
4est wrote:
Actually, I wish the whole nation just ran off a flat SALES tax and we didn’t have any Income Tax.
All consumers would pay the same %.
Now if you were to argue that food, clothes and shelter should be exempt I´d say the same should be true for medical supplies, like wheelchairs.
Clothes should be included too, unless you want to get into a shitstorm of a pointless debate about why my $900 Gucci underwear should or shouldn’t be taxed. Fuck it, tax that shit. Clothes are one of the most pointless things people buy nowadays when you think about all the name-brand bullshittery. [/quote]
maybe, but if you open that can of worms, the same is true for food and shelter.
maybe a vat across the board and a cheque per person at the end of the year?
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
orion wrote:
4est wrote:
Actually, I wish the whole nation just ran off a flat SALES tax and we didn’t have any Income Tax.
All consumers would pay the same %.
Now if you were to argue that food, clothes and shelter should be exempt I´d say the same should be true for medical supplies, like wheelchairs.
Clothes should be included too, unless you want to get into a shitstorm of a pointless debate about why my $900 Gucci underwear should or shouldn’t be taxed. Fuck it, tax that shit. Clothes are one of the most pointless things people buy nowadays when you think about all the name-brand bullshittery. [/quote]
Nothing should be exempt. One of the biggest shortfalls of our current tax code is that only a small minority realize they are getting raped. If everyone feels the pain, there will be increasing pressure to reduce the size of gov’t and spending. It is no accident that the current tax code only has obvious significant effect on a voting minority.
If you give them the power to exempt, you give them power to buy votes just like they do today with the tax code. You might as well leave it the way it is now.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
orion wrote:
4est wrote:
Actually, I wish the whole nation just ran off a flat SALES tax and we didn’t have any Income Tax.
All consumers would pay the same %.
Now if you were to argue that food, clothes and shelter should be exempt I´d say the same should be true for medical supplies, like wheelchairs.
Clothes should be included too, unless you want to get into a shitstorm of a pointless debate about why my $900 Gucci underwear should or shouldn’t be taxed. Fuck it, tax that shit. Clothes are one of the most pointless things people buy nowadays when you think about all the name-brand bullshittery.
Nothing should be exempt. One of the biggest shortfalls of our current tax code is that only a small minority realize they are getting raped. If everyone feels the pain, there will be increasing pressure to reduce the size of gov’t and spending. It is no accident that the current tax code only has obvious significant effect on a voting minority.
If you give them the power to exempt, you give them power to buy votes just like they do today with the tax code. You might as well leave it the way it is now.
[/quote]
You actually have an interesting, yet inhumane and logically flawed point. I’m not being sarcastic btw. It really is thought provoking. I’ll re-read it a few times.
Anyone can choose to be a leach on society. There are many ways for any of us to do this legally. Choosing to support yourself shouldn’t exempt you from paying taxes in a society where others are forced to pay.
If you work, you pay. If you are able to work you shouldn’t be living off me. If you are able to work, you contribute like the rest of us.
Many of us have to overcome difficulties to support ourselves and our families. That’s life. Disease, disability, mental instability, lack of skills or intellegence, shitty parents and upbringing, bad luck, etc. can all make life difficult.
You think our tax code is complicated now, think about what your suggestion would do to this. Think about who will be deciding who is “disabled” and who is not. Sounds like just another way to buy votes.
[quote]orion wrote:
Journeyman wrote:
Would it be reasonable to give all disabled persons a subsidy that would cover
the direct costs of their disability and
an estimate of their lost earning potential?
The direct costs of the disability would be tax exempt, and the lost earning would be taxable just like any other income. If the disabled person was able to work they would be taxed just like anyone else, but there is a recognition that a disability, almost by definition, does lower one’s earning potential.
This strikes me as rational and ethical. Paying taxes is an obligation of being a member of society, not a penalty.
No, taxation is theft, and if you tell people that they simply cannot work and therefore deserve a break they are eventually going to believe it.
[/quote]
Oh please. Taxation is not theft, it it what we have to pay in order to be part of society. The revolutionaries protested taxation without representation. We have representation.
[quote]Journeyman wrote:
orion wrote:
Journeyman wrote:
Would it be reasonable to give all disabled persons a subsidy that would cover
the direct costs of their disability and
an estimate of their lost earning potential?
The direct costs of the disability would be tax exempt, and the lost earning would be taxable just like any other income. If the disabled person was able to work they would be taxed just like anyone else, but there is a recognition that a disability, almost by definition, does lower one’s earning potential.
This strikes me as rational and ethical. Paying taxes is an obligation of being a member of society, not a penalty.
No, taxation is theft, and if you tell people that they simply cannot work and therefore deserve a break they are eventually going to believe it.
Oh please. Taxation is not theft, it it what we have to pay in order to be part of society. The revolutionaries protested taxation without representation. We have representation.[/quote]
So?
It is still theft and they got it wrong.
Look into it and you will find out that your founders had a hard time justifying taxation and used a very mild and self regulating form of it, tariffs.
So, even if we granted that some taxes are questionable but necessary, a progressive income tax is nothing but the naked redistribution of wealth at gunpoint.
Seems the argument being presented here is that working tax free is an incentive/reward to make disabled people who can work, work. Also sounds like you feel its unfair that you choose to work while others who can don’t. Seems like the best way to deal with this would be making sure people who can work do work, and removal of benefits from people who refuse to.
[quote]4est wrote:
I choose to work and thus not be a “burden on society”. This saves the government thousands of dollars per year. However, I’m thanked by being taxed. Those of us with a major disability, but whom choose to work, should be tax exempt.
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PS - I feel like I’m dancing with the Devil. [/quote]
I couldn’t agree more, but for sake of compromise I would say some greater tax break.
If you can work, you aren’t disabled. At least not from a working standpoint.
This argument makes more sense when applied to government workers. When the government pays people it hires, it still taxes it’s own payments.
Death and taxes, it sucks but it’s life. Progressive taxation is a punishment for doing better. You work harder than other disabled people so they take money. If I work harder than some of my able people, they take more from me. It isn’t fair for anyone but you’d need to change the whole system.
