[quote]BobDigiNY wrote:
i took it for about a year and loved it. i would always feel much more rested in the morning when waking up. a friend of mine asked a trainer from back home about the stuff though and he told him that the increase in t-levels causes an increase in estrogen levels as well. i haven’t been able to find any info on that. anybody else heard this? my apologies for also hijacking the thread. [/quote]
I don’t believe that this is true. It’s hardly a large increase in T that ZMA causes. And the WAY that it boosts T is by helping prevent it from aromatizing to estrogen.
I would take it on workout nights only. I say this b/c any supplement you take, whether it be Biotest or w/e, your body will get used to, unless you up the dosage. Even then, you can only do it up to a point. The first time i took ZMA, i slept like a baby. However, if you take it day in day out, it won’t affect u as much.
[quote]zooropa1150 wrote:
I would take it on workout nights only. I say this b/c any supplement you take, whether it be Biotest or w/e, your body will get used to, unless you up the dosage. Even then, you can only do it up to a point. The first time i took ZMA, i slept like a baby. However, if you take it day in day out, it won’t affect u as much.[/quote]
This is flawed thinking. As said before, ZMA is a like a multivitamin! Having zinc and magnesium in your diet is essential to your health. I no longer say to myself “Wow, that was the best sleep of my life!” because it’s become the norm.
I guess, but i don’t know man.
If you need Zinc , Mg, or B vitamins… take a multivitamin, double the dose or w/e. I was just saying , for me, taking it everyday lost its effect on my sleep. And since ZMA is built to raise T lvls, and make you recover better, you lose half of its effects. I mean, unless your a athelete, i fail to see the effects of taking it day in and day out.
I would just like to add that I feel it better when I take it on an empty stomach. I take it around 4:30 in the afternoon on workout days. Seems my stomach is almost empty since I eat lunch at 12:00 noon.
I workout at 6pm. After working out I have my Surge and later my protein drink for the night. On non workout days I take it right before bed. I sleep great and I love the colorful dreams.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
I wonder if the stuff gives you deeper sleep and that’s why you dream more vividly. Or. does it simply make you dream more vividly and we all assume that it gives you a deeper sleep because you are dreaming more vividly.[/quote]
I think it is because it affects the dopamine levels in the brain, which would tend to rev things up a bit in the dream department…or at least that’s my theory.
Well, it has to make you think because dreams occur during REM sleep. REM sleep does little for recovery(energy levels for the next day) and ZMA is for recovery purposes. Nevertheless, it makes you feel quite good the next day.
Question though, is anyone else tired when they take ZMA, and only get 6-7 hrs of sleep? I’m quite tired when i get only 6-7 hrs when taking ZMA.
[quote]zooropa1150 wrote:
Well, it has to make you think because dreams occur during REM sleep. REM sleep does little for recovery(energy levels for the next day) and ZMA is for recovery purposes. Nevertheless, it makes you feel quite good the next day.
Question though, is anyone else tired when they take ZMA, and only get 6-7 hrs of sleep? I’m quite tired when i get only 6-7 hrs when taking ZMA.[/quote]
I noticed the opposite. Days when I would only get 5-6 hours while taking ZMA, I felt as rested as when I used to get 8+ hours.
My wife’s been taking it too, and said she noticed the same thing, as well as more remembered dreams.
If it’s a placebo effect, then I’d still be all for it, because it would mean it’s working, but I really don’t think it is.
Also remember, we only remember a very few of the dreams we have. Just because we don’t remember any, doesn’t mean we went a night without dreaming.
A normal, healthy person dreams every night that they get over a few hours of sleep. We just don’t always remember them.
How do you feel it has helped you oh experienced one???..only started on it a few months back.
[quote]RoadWarrior wrote:
ZMA is zinc, magnesium amd B6. Cycling it is like cycling a multi-vitamin. I have been taking it every night for years.[/quote]
cuold be wrong here but I didn’t think that REM phase of sleep was the deepest.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
I wonder if the stuff gives you deeper sleep and that’s why you dream more vividly. Or. does it simply make you dream more vividly and we all assume that it gives you a deeper sleep because you are dreaming more vividly.[/quote]
Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe it is Vitamin B-6 that is the main constituent of ZMA thats responsible for the dreams: Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
Here’s some great info from the “howstuffworks” website:
"Sleep and the Brain
If you attach an electroencephalograph to a person’s head, you can record the person’s brainwave activity. An awake and relaxed person generates alpha waves, which are consistent oscillations at about 10 cycles per second. An alert person generates beta waves, which are about twice as fast.
During sleep, two slower patterns called theta waves and delta waves take over. Theta waves have oscillations in the range of 3.5 to 7 cycles per second, and delta waves have oscillations of less than 3.5 cycles per second. As a person falls asleep and sleep deepens, the brainwave patterns slow down. The slower the brainwave patterns, the deeper the sleep – a person deep in delta wave sleep is hardest to wake up.
stages of sleep
Sleep stages
At several points during the night, something unexpected happens – rapid eye movement (REM) sleep occurs. Most people experience three to five intervals of REM sleep per night, and brainwaves during this period speed up to awake levels.
If you ever watch a person or a dog experiencing REM sleep, you will see their eyes flickering back and forth rapidly. In many dogs and some people, arms, legs and facial muscles will twitch during REM sleep. Periods of sleep other than REM sleep are know as NREM (non-REM) sleep.
REM sleep is when you dream. If you wake up a person during REM sleep, the person can vividly recall dreams. If you wake up a person during NREM sleep, generally the person will not be dreaming.
You must have both REM and NREM sleep to get a good night’s sleep. A normal person will spend about 25 percent of the night in REM sleep, and the rest in NREM. A REM session – a dream – lasts five to 30 minutes. "
In a lifetime an average person probaly only remembers 4-8 dreams…unless you write them down immediatly after dreaming them. Still, the number is low. Is REM sleep necessary for survival… of course.
Studies have shown , if you wake up a person before going into REM sleep, they really can’t function the next day. In fact, if you pull an all nighter, and the next day you sleep,i guarantee you you will dream like crazy!
I’m just wondering, usually extra REM sleep does little/nothing for energy levels the next day. Its like people who sleep 7-8 hrs a day have more energy than people who sleep 10 or 12.
[quote]zooropa1150 wrote:
In a lifetime an average person probaly only remembers 4-8 dreams…unless you write them down immediatly after dreaming them. Still, the number is low. Is REM sleep necessary for survival… of course.
Studies have shown , if you wake up a person before going into REM sleep, they really can’t function the next day. In fact, if you pull an all nighter, and the next day you sleep,i guarantee you you will dream like crazy!
I’m just wondering, usually extra REM sleep does little/nothing for energy levels the next day. Its like people who sleep 7-8 hrs a day have more energy than people who sleep 10 or 12.[/quote]
Im going to say hell no that statement is wrong. I am taking ZMA and and I can especially remember my dreams they are that vivid. Some of them are so vivid that I dare not say them to anyone else for fear that I will be shipped off to the looney bin.
The last statement about 8hrs vs 10-12 is very true. If I get a perfect 7-8 I am waking up ready to kick ass. 10-12 hours is equal to or worse than getting only 4-5 to me. I really have to throw myself out of bed.
ZMA is pretty good stuff, I don’t have cramps in my legs anymore and I get an amazing show when I sleep. =D
[quote]zooropa1150 wrote:
I would take it on workout nights only. I say this b/c any supplement you take, whether it be Biotest or w/e, your body will get used to, unless you up the dosage. Even then, you can only do it up to a point. The first time i took ZMA, i slept like a baby. However, if you take it day in day out, it won’t affect u as much.[/quote]
This is flawed thinking. As said before, ZMA is a like a multivitamin! Having zinc and magnesium in your diet is essential to your health. I no longer say to myself “Wow, that was the best sleep of my life!” because it’s become the norm.[/quote]
