Sustainability

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
What about a 0.5% tax on every financial transaction that occurs in this country…until the debt is paid off?

Take a $100 out at the ATM and 50c goes towards the debt?

Any takers?[/quote]

ANYTHING that transfers money from the people without wholesale, massive spending cuts (see above posts about Canada) will do nothing but make the government bigger and stronger and the people weaker and poorer.[/quote]

Agree…was just throwing it out there.

But with this administration, there will be no cuts just a swift passing of the buck further down the road.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
What the US could learn from Canada in regards to fiscal responsibility.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/10814175.cms

“Everyone wants to know how we did it,” said political economist Brian Lee Crowley, head of the Ottawa-based thinktank Macdonald-Laurier Institute, who has examined the lessons of the 1990s.

But to win its budget wars, Canada first had to realize how dire its situation was and then dramatically shrink the size of government rather than just limit the pace of spending growth.

It would eventually oversee the biggest reduction in Canadian government spending since demobilization after World War Two. The big cuts, and relatively small tax increases, brought a budget surplus within four years.

Canadian debt shrank to 29 percent of gross domestic product in 2008-09, from a peak of 68 percent in 1995-96, and the budget was in the black for 11 consecutive years until the 2008-09 recession.

For Canada, the vicious debt circle turned into a virtuous cycle which rescued a currency that had been dubbed the “northern peso.” Canada went from having the second worst fiscal position in the Group of Seven industrialized countries, behind only Italy, to easily the best.

It is far from a coincidence that the recent recession was shorter and shallower here than in the United States. Indeed, by January, Canada had recovered all the jobs lost in the downturn, while the US has hardly been able to dent its high unemployment. [/quote]
[/quote]

No no, Keynesian and high taxes. You know like France.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
What about a 0.5% tax on every financial transaction that occurs in this country…until the debt is paid off?

Take a $100 out at the ATM and 50c goes towards the debt?

Any takers?[/quote]

No way man. That would cripple the market, lol…

http://www.nyxdata.com/nysedata/asp/factbook/viewer_edition.asp?mode=table&key=3007&category=3

Holy burden.[/quote]

Just a random idea…I defer to your number crunching.

What if it was just a sales tax…or maybe a smaller percentage? Like .05%

And I get your holy burden…but so is 16 Trillion. [/quote]

Plus I don’t like the idea of giving a bloated government more money. I would prefer they can act responsible then I’ll give them some money.

It would have to be something outside of income tax though, and not kept in the general fund for me to have trust that it would go to the debt.[/quote]

Yep, but could you pass the tax with a caveat that it would be stopped as soon as the deficit was eliminated?

Because you are right, you cannot raise income taxes high enough to get us out of this mess.

People need to ask themselves if they are willing to have small increases in taxes coupled massive expenditure cuts as well. The Canadian ratio was 7 to 1 expenditure cuts to tax increases. Keep in mind Canada has federal government sales taxes and progressive income taxation. The government that led the massive expenditure cuts is the Federal Liberal Party (think JFK in the 60’s) a centrist party.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

Yep, but could you pass the tax with a caveat that it would be stopped as soon as the deficit was eliminated?

[/quote]

Yeah, but they would never repeal it. This is government we are talking about.

Let’s just sell the state of Washington to Canada. Apparently obam is a conservative up there so we’d be improving there lives.

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
People need to ask themselves if they are willing to have small increases in taxes coupled massive expenditure cuts as well. The Canadian ratio was 7 to 1 expenditure cuts to tax increases. Keep in mind Canada has federal government sales taxes and progressive income taxation. The government that led the massive expenditure cuts is the Federal Liberal Party (think JFK in the 60’s) a centrist party. [/quote]

If they show me where they are going to massive cuts I would not mind nearly as much if my taxes went up. But I do NOT see that happening. Taxes will go up, spending will go up.

[quote]StevenF wrote:

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
People need to ask themselves if they are willing to have small increases in taxes coupled massive expenditure cuts as well. The Canadian ratio was 7 to 1 expenditure cuts to tax increases. Keep in mind Canada has federal government sales taxes and progressive income taxation. The government that led the massive expenditure cuts is the Federal Liberal Party (think JFK in the 60’s) a centrist party. [/quote]

spending will go up. [/quote]

Gotta scratch the backs that scratched yours!

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
People need to ask themselves if they are willing to have small increases in taxes coupled massive expenditure cuts as well. The Canadian ratio was 7 to 1 expenditure cuts to tax increases. Keep in mind Canada has federal government sales taxes and progressive income taxation. The government that led the massive expenditure cuts is the Federal Liberal Party (think JFK in the 60’s) a centrist party. [/quote]

I would be okay with 7 to 1.

We also have a progressive tax system.

Sales tax isn’t going to fly well though.

What if you did royalty taxes on federal land. Allow for oil and gas exploration and drilling and set up a royalty framework on the extraction.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
People need to ask themselves if they are willing to have small increases in taxes coupled massive expenditure cuts as well. The Canadian ratio was 7 to 1 expenditure cuts to tax increases. Keep in mind Canada has federal government sales taxes and progressive income taxation. The government that led the massive expenditure cuts is the Federal Liberal Party (think JFK in the 60’s) a centrist party. [/quote]

spending will go up. [/quote]

Gotta scratch the backs that scratched yours![/quote]

Pretty sure you just re-wrote the modern American version of Keynesian economics in two posts guys.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
People need to ask themselves if they are willing to have small increases in taxes coupled massive expenditure cuts as well. The Canadian ratio was 7 to 1 expenditure cuts to tax increases. Keep in mind Canada has federal government sales taxes and progressive income taxation. The government that led the massive expenditure cuts is the Federal Liberal Party (think JFK in the 60’s) a centrist party. [/quote]

spending will go up. [/quote]

Gotta scratch the backs that scratched yours![/quote]

Pretty sure you just re-wrote the modern American version of Keynesian economics in two posts guys.
[/quote]

its common sense. When in debt, spend more money.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
People need to ask themselves if they are willing to have small increases in taxes coupled massive expenditure cuts as well. The Canadian ratio was 7 to 1 expenditure cuts to tax increases. Keep in mind Canada has federal government sales taxes and progressive income taxation. The government that led the massive expenditure cuts is the Federal Liberal Party (think JFK in the 60’s) a centrist party. [/quote]

spending will go up. [/quote]

Gotta scratch the backs that scratched yours![/quote]

Pretty sure you just re-wrote the modern American version of Keynesian economics in two posts guys.
[/quote]

VICTORY!!

/insert facepalm jpg.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I have a theory to run by the Canucks:

Do your politicians have the gravy train of salary, perks, pensions, i.e., the wealth making machine that the American system provides for its federal career politicians?

Because lemme tell you what…there is a huge incentive to stay in power. A huge financial incentive. Staying in power makes one a very rich man/woman.

See where I’m headed with this?[/quote]

The salaries are good, the perks are nice, but a rich man it does not make. The majority of the people in political office are wealthy independent of the jobs they hold in the government. They also get a pretty nice gig when they leave in the form of lobbying, book sales, etc.

You talk about how cutting some government expenses is not enough, but you want to address this drop in the bucket? That’s odd.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
Push,

I think they were voting for some fairness in the economic system, [/quote]

What isn’t fair about the current one?

I think it is clear that the shrinking middle class and the wealth-gap indicates a growing unfairness in the current system. Anybody can get rich in this country, what pisses people off is that the rich make the rules, they influence the votes, they have access to decision makers, hell congress has been insider trading for years, using their influence and knowledge to get rich while the working stiff does the same thing and goes to jail. America is not a rigged system, but it definitely favors those that already have money and power.

What are we cutting to pay for this?

We are about 1.4 trillion over extended. What are you cutting to pay for this? Food Stamps? Planned Parenthood? Medicare? Social Security? Defense?

We will cut some from a few programs, defense is obviously the low hanging fruit, but we can always raise more revenue as well, 1/4% raise on the employee portion of SS taxes, eliminate the upper limit cap on SS taxes, maybe institute a 1/2%-1% national sales tax on non-perishable goods (last year that would have been around 50-100 billion I believe) people hate taxes, but we can’t complain about a debt figure and refuse to pay it down

[quote]
Most people want to know that Social Security and Healthcare will be around for them, and if that means eliminating the upper limit on employee contributions then they are fine with it.[/quote]

Medicare doesn’t have an upper limit, and all raising the limit does is kick the can down the road so my daughter has to fix the problem. She says “No dada you handle your own mistakes”.

Oh and what was Obama’s plan to fix SS?

Raising the limit means paying more each paycheck, how is that kicking the can down the road? If people want SS they will have to pay for it.

I live in Mass, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to hear an actual description of a typical liberal Dem.

I’m farther to the left than most I’m also a veteran from a family where every male has served as much as 30 years in the military, we all vote democrat and we all love America, it’s a sample size of thirty six people (uncles, granddads, brothers and cousins) the assumption that libs hate America is just as true as the one where all Repubs are in militias and/or the klan.

No, maybe the older people.

You could cut defense to zero and still spend 500 billion more than we take in.

yes, I guess we shouldn’t cut anything at all, I guess you’re right (that’s what you’re saying isn’t it?)
I don’t expect to cut defense spending to 0, or even by 50%, I expect to close bases and consolidate our forces, saving billions in unneeded security and expensive resupplying of troops in bases all over the world.

YES! lets ignore market forces or allocation of resources, and force the market to put resources where it doesn’t want them to be.

This should work perfectly I tell you, can’t see a single thing wrong here…

God forbid we have American businesses operate in America. If the corporate tax rate is competitive why would they go somewhere else? Oh, maybe cheap labor, no environmental regulations etc. I am not for turning the US into a 3rd world country, I am also not for letting businesses reap the rewards of our economy without contributing anything to its growth.

Indentured Servitude?

(Not that I have a problem with welfare recipient working, just hesitant to instantly make the government employees.)

Clearly you don’t understand that we already do this (and have for years) on a small scale, It’s not indentured servitude, it’s OJT with pay and bennies (that they already receive through social welfare programs), at this point you seem to be contrary for no reason at all. these people would not be federal employees in the career sense, they would be more like the seasonal help the post office hires, no seniority, no raises, no retirement, just a two year period of training to prepare for life after welfare.

[

2012-13 Salaries of Canadian Members of Parliament
The salaries and allowances of Canadian members of parliament are adjusted on April 1 each year. Increases to the salaries of members of parliament are based on an index of base-wage increases from major settlements of private-sector bargaining units maintained by the federal Department of Human Resources Development.

For 2012-13 the salaries of Members of Parliament have been frozen at the 2009-10 level.

Base Salary of Members of Parliament
All members of parliament make a basic salary of $157,731.

Extra Compensation for Additional Responsibilities
MPs who have extra responsibilities, such as the Prime Minister, Speaker, Leader of the Opposition, Cabinet Ministers, Ministers of State, Leaders of other parties, parliamentary secretaries, party house leaders, caucus chairs, and chairs of House of Commons committees, receive additional compensation.

Title Additional Salary Total Salary
Member of Parliament $157,731
Prime Minister* $157,731 $315,462
Speaker* $75,516 $233,247
Leader of the Opposition* $75,516 $233,247
Cabinet Minister* $75,516 $233,247
Minister of State $56,637 $214,368
Leaders of Other Parties $53,694 $211,425
Government Whip $28,420 $186,151
Opposition Whip $28,420 $186,151
Other Party Whips $11,165 $168,896
Parliamentary Secretaries $15,834 $173,565
Chair of Standing Committee $11,165 $168,896
Caucus Chair - Government $11,165 $168,896
Caucus Chair - Opposition $11,165 $168,896
Caucus Chairs - Other Parties $5,684 $163,415

*The Prime Minister, Speaker of the House of Commons, Leader of the Opposition and Cabinet Ministers also get a car allowance.

This.

Ths is an important question that lefties never answer. Abortion? Pages and pages. Same sex marriage? More pages.

Sustainability of entitlement programs? Crickets chirping. And none of them seem to have spent any time thinking about this. And we’re running out of time.

These programs - even if you love them dearly - are not sustainable. There is not enough wealth to tax to pay for them. Even if there was, it is morally bankrupt to vote yourself benefits only to stick your children with the enormous bill.

The great irony, of course, is that we hear about sustainability from lefties all the time re: the environment, and all the same principles get said out loud: the need to circumscribe our wants now so that we don’t leave nothing for our kids to enjoy, the importance of resolving sustainability problems long in advance of the problem coming to a head (environmental disaster), and so forth.

But these principles - good, important ones - are left unspoken when lefties get asked about entitlement programs.

That isn’t to say that “conservatives” (some of them) aren’t guilty of the same thing at times. But the slience is deafening from the Left, and we’re running out of time to reform them, and we should prefer surgery now to amputation later.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I have a theory to run by the Canucks:

Do your politicians have the gravy train of salary, perks, pensions, i.e., the wealth making machine that the American system provides for its federal career politicians?

Because lemme tell you what…there is a huge incentive to stay in power. A huge financial incentive. Staying in power makes one a very rich man/woman.

See where I’m headed with this?[/quote]

The salaries are good, the perks are nice, but a rich man it does not make. The majority of the people in political office are wealthy independent of the jobs they hold in the government. They also get a pretty nice gig when they leave in the form of lobbying, book sales, etc.

You talk about how cutting some government expenses is not enough, but you want to address this drop in the bucket? That’s odd.
[/quote]

So $175K a year and a pension for life, doesn’t equal rich? For part time work not less, interesting.