Suits on a Budget

Off Topic
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[quote]SexMachine wrote:
A gentleman needs a few tailor made suits; a dark navy, black or grey/pin stripe is a must for funerals and for when you need to convey a formal and sober impression. He needs some less formal wear: sports jacket/s, slacks and preferably a tweed or flannel jacket. And lastly a double-breasted blazer; preferably in navy blue with brass or gold plated buttons and suitable grey flannel slacks or mustard/fawn slacks. This is a traditional English gentleman’s wardrobe and usually also includes a summer suit of some sort - maybe a white linen suit with white/cream straw hat.[/quote]

I learned everything I needed about the English Gentleman from this movie

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[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

It’s a traditional, timeless and classical aesthetic.[/quote]

I’m not all that sure how “timeless” it is seeing how an 18th century Englishman’s aesthetic looked like this.[/quote]

The navy double-breasted blazer with gold buttons is based on the classical British Naval Officers’ uniforms dating back centuries.

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And this is the modern civilian version. A timeless classic.

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Summer suits

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Would a double breasted, fully canvased suit be considered 2 ply or 3 ply ?

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[quote]TheKraken wrote:

Would a double breasted, fully canvased suit be considered 2 ply or 3 ply ? [/quote]

No idea. I just choose the material(which has a specific weight), get measured and my tailor makes it.

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[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
A gentleman needs a few tailor made suits; a dark navy, black or grey/pin stripe is a must for funerals and for when you need to convey a formal and sober impression. He needs some less formal wear: sports jacket/s, slacks and preferably a tweed or flannel jacket. And lastly a double-breasted blazer; preferably in navy blue with brass or gold plated buttons and suitable grey flannel slacks or mustard/fawn slacks. This is a traditional English gentleman’s wardrobe and usually also includes a summer suit of some sort - maybe a white linen suit with white/cream straw hat.[/quote]

Unless the very last thing on someone’s mind is making sure they strut around looking like an English gentleman.[/quote]

It’s a timeless, classical and traditional aesthetic that transcends cultural specifics. The Italianate gentleman’s wardrobe is the same. They just prefer a few minor differences like pleats in the centre of the jacket instead of the sides. It’s not an “English” aesthetic as such. It’s a traditional, timeless and classical aesthetic.[/quote]

I guess everyone has a different definition of timeless, but I do agree that the roots of today’s men’s dress clothing dates back to England. The suits and sports jackets that men wear today were actually popularized by the Duke of Windsor in the 1920’s & 30’s. Before that, men wore frock coats for business and today’s suits were considered informal weekend wear. The Duke took to wearing suits (what the English call lounge suits) for everyday wear as they were much more comfortable, and he started a trend that is still in force today.

Going back to the original purpose of the thread though, remember that the OP is on a very tight budget. He can’t afford all of the items you mentioned, let alone tailor-made clothes. As he already owns a dark grey suit, I think a navy blue suit is all he really needs at the moment. Combined with a variety of shirts and ties, he can create a number of different looks. The blue suit jacket can double as a blazer (double breasted isn’t that popular in the U.S. anyway) and the grey suit pants can take the place of flannel pants. 99% of the people he meets wouldn’t notice the difference. Throw in a pair of khakis, and he would have a wardrobe for pretty much any occasion.

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[quote]TheKraken wrote:

Would a double breasted, fully canvased suit be considered 2 ply or 3 ply ? [/quote]

You’re talking about 2 different things. A canvas is used in the chest of a high-end suit or sport jacket to give it shape. It’s not actually made of canvas and it can range from a very heavy material to very light, depending on the look the tailor wants to create. Over time the canvas molds itself to the wearers body and creates more of a custom fit. At one time all jackets were fully canvassed, but the vast majority of jackets today are fused, which is more efficient from a mass production standpoint. Fusing is an interlining with glue on both sides that is put between the cloth and lining on the chest. It is then heated and the glue holds everything together. Initially only cheap suits were fused, as the glue tended to dry out after awhile and the fabric would pucker. Today’s interlining are much better though, and this method is used in pretty much all production suits.

2 ply or 3 ply refers to the type of cloth used. Individual yarns are twisted together to make them stronger. If 2 yarns are twisted together it’s a 2 ply cloth and if 3 yarns are twisted together, then it’s 3 ply. Some cloths go up to 6 ply. Generally the fewer yarns twisted together, the smoother the cloth will be, although a lot depends on the thickness of the yarn as well.

I could go on in a lot more detail, but I don’t want to hijack this thread to discuss minutiae that most people probably aren’t interested in.

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[quote]SexMachine wrote:

  1. The white linen summer suit of European colonialism; this is what you’d see European gentlemen wearing in the tropical and subtropical colonies. Always with a straw hat.

[/quote]

Having lived in tropical British colonies for several years, I never once came across someone in a white linen suit… straw hats were quite rare as well.

Not that I roll w/ gentlemen, though, but I had attended functions with ambassadors and the like.

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^^ I didn’t know that about the ply. The materials I buy are always listed by their weight. I had an Irish thornproof tweed sports jacket made with felt patches on the elbows and I ordered the material in from Ireland because they’re the only company still making authentic, heavy Irish thornproof tweed. For suits I just pick the nicest Italian fabrics from a fabric book.

Tailor made suits aren’t necessarily expensive. When you buy an off the rack suit you’re usually paying a load for the label and they’re never going to fit properly and sit as well as tailor made. OP should be able to afford a couple of tailor made suits surely? They start at a couple of hundred bucks.

But yes, navy, grey/pinstripe are a must. Black isn’t as versatile as you’d think. I tend not to wear my black suit very often. Some kind of summer suit is a must too because suits get so hot. Just choose a really light wool.

Another thing that’s essential is what the English call a “Mackintosh” and the Americans call a raincoat of trench coat I think. “Burberry” makes the traditional ones but they’ve been tampering with the design over the last few years so maybe go for a second hand one.

It doesn’t cost too much to build up a nice formal wardrobe if you shop smart.

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[quote]SexMachine wrote:
But yes, navy, grey/pinstripe are a must. Black isn’t as versatile as you’d think. I tend not to wear my black suit very often.
[/quote]

In the States, the only people who wear black suits are undertakers. Maybe waiters. It’s certainly not business appropriate.

Edit: and the clergy.

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[quote]SexMachine wrote:
^^ I didn’t know that about the ply. The materials I buy are always listed by their weight. I had an Irish thornproof tweed sports jacket made with felt patches on the elbows and I ordered the material in from Ireland because they’re the only company still making authentic, heavy Irish thornproof tweed. For suits I just pick the nicest Italian fabrics from a fabric book.

Tailor made suits aren’t necessarily expensive. When you buy an off the rack suit you’re usually paying a load for the label and they’re never going to fit properly and sit as well as tailor made. OP should be able to afford a couple of tailor made suits surely? They start at a couple of hundred bucks.

But yes, navy, grey/pinstripe are a must. Black isn’t as versatile as you’d think. I tend not to wear my black suit very often. Some kind of summer suit is a must too because suits get so hot. Just choose a really light wool.

Another thing that’s essential is what the English call a “Mackintosh” and the Americans call a raincoat of trench coat I think. “Burberry” makes the traditional ones but they’ve been tampering with the design over the last few years so maybe go for a second hand one.

It doesn’t cost too much to build up a nice formal wardrobe if you shop smart.[/quote]

There are lots of variables that you could look at when evaluating cloth, but weight is the most common. It’s also a good idea to look at the porosity of the cloth well. Generally a heavier porous fabric will wear better and be a lot more comfortable than a lightweight tightly knit fabric. I prefer English fabrics to Italian for this reason.

I agree that black is for undertakers and celebrities. The OP’s suit is dark grey, which is different.

I think we may have different definitions of tailor made. By tailor made, I had thought that you were talking about a suit cut by hand and hand made by a tailor. The British call this bespoke. It takes 75-80 hours of work to make a suit of this sort. Add the cost of cloth and trimmings to the tailors labor, and you can see that a suit like this would cost a minimum of a few thousand dollars.

There are also made to measure suits. With this, a tailor takes measurements, puts them into a computer and sends them to a factory that makes the suit. The tailor then makes the final alterations in his shop. With the proliferation of the internet and offshore factories, people can even take their own measurements and order the suit themselves. I think a few other posters mentioned sites where you can do this.

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[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
But yes, navy, grey/pinstripe are a must. Black isn’t as versatile as you’d think. I tend not to wear my black suit very often.
[/quote]

In the States, the only people who wear black suits are undertakers. Maybe waiters. It’s certainly not business appropriate.

Edit: and the clergy.[/quote]

My black suit is my pall bearer suit. I pretty much only wear it to funerals.

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[quote]biker wrote:
Believe it or not, try EBAY. [/quote]

Second this. I buy new Brooks Brothers suits for about a thousand bucks every year or two. They are awesome suits, but expensive. I supplement with ebay. I get Brooks Brothers for under a hundred bucks.

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[quote]OldFatGuy2 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
^^ I didn’t know that about the ply. The materials I buy are always listed by their weight. I had an Irish thornproof tweed sports jacket made with felt patches on the elbows and I ordered the material in from Ireland because they’re the only company still making authentic, heavy Irish thornproof tweed. For suits I just pick the nicest Italian fabrics from a fabric book.

Tailor made suits aren’t necessarily expensive. When you buy an off the rack suit you’re usually paying a load for the label and they’re never going to fit properly and sit as well as tailor made. OP should be able to afford a couple of tailor made suits surely? They start at a couple of hundred bucks.

But yes, navy, grey/pinstripe are a must. Black isn’t as versatile as you’d think. I tend not to wear my black suit very often. Some kind of summer suit is a must too because suits get so hot. Just choose a really light wool.

Another thing that’s essential is what the English call a “Mackintosh” and the Americans call a raincoat of trench coat I think. “Burberry” makes the traditional ones but they’ve been tampering with the design over the last few years so maybe go for a second hand one.

It doesn’t cost too much to build up a nice formal wardrobe if you shop smart.[/quote]

There are lots of variables that you could look at when evaluating cloth, but weight is the most common. It’s also a good idea to look at the porosity of the cloth well. Generally a heavier porous fabric will wear better and be a lot more comfortable than a lightweight tightly knit fabric. I prefer English fabrics to Italian for this reason.

I agree that black is for undertakers and celebrities. The OP’s suit is dark grey, which is different.

I think we may have different definitions of tailor made. By tailor made, I had thought that you were talking about a suit cut by hand and hand made by a tailor. The British call this bespoke. It takes 75-80 hours of work to make a suit of this sort. Add the cost of cloth and trimmings to the tailors labor, and you can see that a suit like this would cost a minimum of a few thousand dollars.

There are also made to measure suits. With this, a tailor takes measurements, puts them into a computer and sends them to a factory that makes the suit. The tailor then makes the final alterations in his shop. With the proliferation of the internet and offshore factories, people can even take their own measurements and order the suit themselves. I think a few other posters mentioned sites where you can do this. [/quote]

Yes, good point about the difference between made to measure and bespoke. I was talking about bespoke but made to measure would be the affordable option. A proper fit and the right sleeve lengths; a properly measured and fitted suit just sits so much better. And you’re paying for the label with off the shelf - usually paying more too.

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Didn’t seem worth its own thread. Anyone suggest some good places for shoes? The tassels aren’t cutting it anymore.