No our current “system” is what’s expensive. We pay about twice per capita as other countries with their too expensive healthcare, with often worse results as others and we also pay a larger portion of our GDP.
No it won’t as profits aren’t the primary goal. No longer looking to please shareholders and upping that R.O.I.
Not according to usmccds423 science needs to figure out how the treatments work before anyone can have it as a choice. Nevermind the positive results. Those people should have to wait. And they do.
You took 2 words out of my entire post and used them to make a statement completely contrary to it’s context.
What a worthless liar you are, zep.
Dishonest, manipulative scum.
Yeah. Thats what I said. Hence, limit choice to cut costs
It’s a no brainier that every socialized HC country does.
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It’s like you’re yearning for Dr. Nick in real life.
Dude, you’re wrong. I don’t know how to explain this any better to you.
Not like I expect this to have any impression on Zep, but this is an interesting problem we tackle in medical research a lot. Basically, with many chronic conditions, symptoms are not constant - they wax and wane. Regression to the mean makes it very difficult to assess treatment effects within individual patients.
Consider chronic back pain. I’m a surgeon; I see a patient that’s been having pain; I recommend surgery; I do the surgery, see the patient six months later, and they’re feeling better. I pat myself on the back for another patient helped. Yay!
But wait. Am I sure that my surgery is responsible for the patient’s improvement? Might they have improved by the same margin if they just waited awhile? I can’t be sure. As has been explained here countless times to Zep, that’s why we need randomized controlled trials to get an appropriate estimate of treatment effects. We are trying to tease out how much of the reported / observed improvement is due to the treatment versus the mere passage of time. We probably shouldn’t be doing surgery if the “cure” rate is no better than just sitting around doing nothing (and yes, some people will feel better by the mere passage of time). Here’s another related twist on the subject:
Zep’s oft-cited “thousands of people helped” from the Stem Cell Institute is just loads and loads of anecdotes, not any controlled experiment comparing against some standard of care or other treatment option to see what the course would have been for those people absent stem cell treatment. Sure, some people might feel better after receiving treatment. Is it because of the treatment?
Zep, how do you know that the people who received this treatment benefit more than they would have by doing nothing, or getting physical therapy, or some other treatment? How do you know it does anything more than giving someone a sugar pill and calling it The Shaman’s Magic Cure All?
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
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This is what he is really saying. I dare him to prove otherwise:
10+ people publically claim in the media that thousands of people are receiving excellent results = 10s of thousands of people are receiving excellent results
All you have to do is Google reviews of treatment at the Stem Cell Institute and you’ll find just as many negative reviews as positive ones.
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Holy shit. You’re not kidding. I went to one of the stem cell sites and it’s like 50/50 good and bad reviews. I thought there would at least be paid shills submitting more good reviews and challenging the bad ones.
The following is from about the first 20 percent of the review/discussion page. I’m not going to bother to read the entire page, nor am I going to bother pasting the good ones since 1) Like I said, it’s 50/50 good/bad and 2) anyone who wants to see the good ones can go google them.
“Actually I had amniotic stem cell injection in my hip (osteoarthritis) went 9 weeks without ibuprofen, ice or any other anti inflammatory medication. No results – actually more hip pain. The chiropractic health center initially in the seminar and evaluation said that in the rare event that there was no improvement, they would re-administer the injection. Now they a re reneging and claim there is microscopic cartilage growth shown on an ex-ray. I am thinking of taking them to small claims court. I paid $3100.00 cash for the injection from a nurse practitioner in the office. I am 64 and have a high deductible health insurance plan til I’m 65.
Jan”
“I received stem cells in both knees six weeks ago. There has been no change, and I have actually felt worse – headaches from caffeine withdrawl (which was required) and soreness in my knees with the inability to take anti-inflammatory meds. Yesterday I had the PRP injections to help “boost” the stem cells. The one in my left knee rendered me unable to walk. The pain was terrible. I am hopeful that there will be an improvement with time, but I am not optimistic. I was so excited to find something that might help my knees, as I was diagnosed with arthritis 40 years ago at the age of 12. I jumped right in and did not do my research. They said, “No risk,” and I figured they couldn’t make that claim if it weren’t true. Clearly, there’s a risk. I see many people here who are actually worse off than before the injections. And that’s not to mention the out-of-pocket expense. I paid $8K for both knees!
Stupid”
“I had a stem cell procedure on my lower back, a little under a month ago. I was told that I could go back to work the next day I am glad that I had the procedure just prior to a four-day weekend because I could barely move the next day. Even now, four weeks out, I am experiencing pain in my glutes, thighs and even feet.
I understand it takes some time to heal. And I made the right decision to try this before yet another surgery. But I wish my Dr had just been honest that not everyone is “just sore for a few days.” Just to give an idea of how much it hurt: I had been prescribed Norco to take as needed, which I took daily – usually before I went to bed. But the post-stem cell procedure hurt so bad that she prescribed me an extended release morphine.”
“My doc charged me $2000 for a stem cell with PRP for my shoulder tear. They couldn’t get my blood drawn. They tried 5 times in my arm and once in my neck. This has never happened to me. So he skipped the PRP and did the stem cell injection. My arm was moving better in the office but now I’m back to where I’ve started. Still in pain and my arm still stiff and crunchy. How do I even know he injected me with a stem cell and not a cortizon shot??? They returned $500 to me since they couldn’t do the PRP. Just sucks spending $1500 out of my pocket and I’m still the same. This was done January 30, 2017 Monterey, CA.”
“I had the stem cell treatment for my COPD. It has improved my o2 level from 93 to 94% I now have an o2 level between 95 and 97%. I do however have a very ugly side effect from the treatment. I am suffering from ongoing nausea. It has gotten so bad I spent 5 days in the hospital and am currently on 3 medications to try to control it. I also have to go get shots at least twice a week because the meds just don’t work well alone. I think it is a wonderful treatment but if I had know about this side effect I don’t think I would have jumped in so quick. I did do a lot of research and nothing mentioned nausea. I paid 5199 for the treatment in Tx. I received the treatment thru IV and also thru inhalation.”
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You don’t even know what a liar is. You constantly use the word out of context. So results don’t apply to other related circumstances?
Untrue.
A fitting description of you. A liar. It is a description you cannot deny.
For your actions directly pertaining to the above post in which you attenpted to change the meaning of my post by copying 2 words and replying to them out of context, I used the words “dishonest” and “manipulative”. I believe those were appropriately used in the given context.
Oh, you thought you were being clever?
The Stem Cell Institute doesn’t use amniotic stem cells. Primarily they use umbilical-cord stem cells.
Yes, you must watch out for charlatans who are only out to make a buck off of you. Using the stem cell name to gather business.
Well over 1 million patients worldwide have been treated with adult stem cells and experienced improved health,
Yeah, what garbage. Keep supporting policies that deny people choice, so that pharma can make more money from their disease business model.
Then there should be no shortage of human studies since all of these were supposedly conducted in clinical settings. Why do you think there aren’t?
Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence. I can easily say over half the people who have undergone stem cell treatment have not seen any benefits and wasted their money. The rest either experienced the placebo effect or their injuries healed on their own over the months supposedly needed for their stem cell treatment to “take effect”.
If the average cost is 5k per person, that’s a multi-billion dollar global scam.
Prove me wrong.
Don’t results matter?
See? You are a liar. I have not supported any policy that you speak of regarding this. I want quality evidence in appreciable quantities and I called you out because you manipulated and misrepresrented evidence. That is all.
Sure, dude.
Which Stem Cell institute(s)? Be specific.
He only ever mentions the one in Panama.
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